Video
Patreon Bonus: Battle Cruisers & Battleships are separate Categories in the Washington Naval Treaty
Study Patreon Bonus: Battle Cruisers & Battleships are separate Categories in the Washington Naval Treaty, a Dr. Alex Clarke video from 26 Oct 2023, with 75 time notes. Topics include Alternate History, Battlecruisers…
Time notes
- 5:34Why battlecruisers need a separate treaty categoryChapter
The opening problem: the Washington treaty divides ships into capital ships, carriers, and an "other" category, rather than treating battlecruisers as a distinct class.
- 11:23The 5:5:3 ratio and America’s fifteen-ship battle lineNotable Point
The historical treaty’s 5:5:3 capital-ship ratio reflected American insistence on a battle line of fifteen ships, a constraint that shapes the alternate settlement.
- 18:35Why carrier spotting belongs in capital-ship planningNotable Point
Interwar carriers support the battle line not only by scouting but by correcting gunfire, which ties carrier size and speed to the number of fast capital ships at sea.
- 20:40QuestionWhy was the United States not allowed to complete at least one Lexington battlecruiser when Britain retained Hood and Japan retained the Kongōs?AnswerQ&A
American negotiators treated Hood as equivalent value to a Colorado, while a 42,000-ton Lexington would have exceeded the treaty's ordinary 35,000-ton capital-ship ceiling.
- 22:14Carrier limits, ratios, and the conversion exceptionNotable Point
The historical treaty capped ordinary carriers at 27,000 tons and 8-inch guns while allowing Britain, America, and Japan two larger capital-ship conversions apiece.
- 25:01A treaty with battlecruiser tonnage of its ownChapter
Britain’s worldwide commitments make a separate battlecruiser allowance the central bargaining point in this alternate Washington conference.
- 34:53QuestionCould the United States use its economic leverage to force Britain to accept a treaty without a separate battlecruiser category?AnswerQ&A
Not reliably; post-First World War leverage was less centralized, and a British walkout would likely take France, Japan, and Italy with it and leave Congress facing the naval spending it wanted to avoid.
- 36:02QuestionWhy not impose a speed limit on battleships in this version of the Washington treaty?AnswerQ&A
Because speed caps were not part of the contemporary Washington framework, while displacement already forced designers to trade speed against armour, armament, and endurance.
- 39:03Why France and Italy choose battleships over battlecruisersNotable Point
France and Italy are better served by moving their theoretical battlecruiser allowance into battleship tonnage for a Mediterranean rivalry.
- 47:35Cruisers and small carriers outside the main limitsNotable Point
Washington imposed no cumulative cruiser tonnage limit, and that loophole complicates both cruiser building and the treatment of small carriers.
- 47:47QuestionCould France convert some battleship tonnage into heavy-cruiser tonnage?AnswerQ&A
It could ask, but the exchange would not solve France's central problem because cruisers could not counter Italy's fast battleships and Washington imposed no aggregate cruiser tonnage limit anyway.
- 50:05QuestionWhy did France accept parity with Italy at Washington?AnswerQ&A
Italy refused to sign for less than France received, while France was economically weak and unwilling to remain outside the treaty.
- 53:43QuestionWhat cruiser might the Royal Navy build after the E class under this alternate treaty?AnswerQ&A
Probably something like an enlarged County-style reconnaissance cruiser with 9.2-inch guns, alongside an earlier evolution toward a Leander-like light cruiser.
- 54:38QuestionHow would the proposed 12,000-ton threshold apply to HMS Hermes?AnswerQ&A
Hermes might sit outside the counted carrier tonnage, encouraging navies to build useful small carriers below the threshold.
- 56:34Britain’s construction programme and industrial continuityChapter
A separate category lets Britain retain Hood, Renown, and Repulse while building new battleships and battlecruisers before 1930.
- 59:15How extra tonnage could produce a 28-knot Nelson-type battleshipNotable Point
A few thousand additional tons could combine Nelson-class protection with an F3-style hull and machinery arrangement to create a much faster first postwar battleship.
- 1:04:51QuestionHow would the historical capital-ship building holiday work in this alternate treaty?AnswerQ&A
It would become a controlled programme: each navy could build only the ships and sequence written into the agreement, preventing surprises without stopping construction.
- 1:06:09QuestionWould the proposed 12,000-ton cruisers automatically be heavy cruisers?AnswerQ&A
No; the heavy-cruiser category did not yet exist in the treaty, and the proposed ships developed from the large-light-cruiser and scouting tradition.
- 1:07:16Naval orders as regional employment and industrial policyNotable Point
British governments could distribute recurring warship orders to preserve strategically useful yards while supporting regions suffering economic decline.
- 1:08:26A 38,000-ton F3-derived British battlecruiserNotable Point
Scaling the F3 study toward the available treaty tonnage could produce a very fast British battlecruiser, especially if a 15-inch/50 armament saved weight.
- 1:10:24Renown and Repulse as Commonwealth fast-capital-ship forcesNotable Point
New British battlecruisers could make Renown and Repulse available to Australia and New Zealand, spreading cost while maintaining fast ships in the Pacific.
- 1:15:55QuestionWould continued capital-ship construction push the Royal Navy toward high-pressure boilers?AnswerQ&A
It could, because recurring fast-capital-ship designs would keep machinery efficiency and power density under active development.
- 1:16:47QuestionWould powers outside the five treaty navies build battleships or battlecruisers in this scenario?AnswerQ&A
Probably not; states without an existing capital-ship industry would have to order abroad, and few had a strategic need or budget strong enough to justify doing so.
- 1:18:21QuestionWould the separate battlecruiser force operate at the front of the line of battle as scouts?AnswerQ&A
It could perform reconnaissance, but that does not mean placing battlecruisers at the front of the battle line.
- 1:19:38QuestionWould the larger carrier allowance change naval-aircraft procurement straight away?AnswerQ&A
Not necessarily; aircraft and engine development, lift dimensions, and hangar design matter more directly than the carrier's total displacement.
- 1:20:10QuestionDid the Washington treaty forbid signatories from building capital ships for other nations?AnswerQ&A
No; it required disclosure of foreign orders and prevented the builder from taking those ships into its own service.
- 1:21:35How to keep a naval counterfactual boundedNotable Point
The analysis keeps decisions made before the treaty divergence fixed and changes later events only when they follow causally from the new settlement.
- 1:22:43QuestionWould Russia try to build battleships or battlecruisers in this alternate treaty world?AnswerQ&A
It might try, as it did historically, but weak infrastructure and the loss of admirals and engineers would still prevent a successful programme.
- 1:22:57Japan keeps the Kongōs and gains new capital-ship optionsChapter
Japan can retain the four Kongōs within a separate battlecruiser allowance while using capital-ship tonnage for four new battleships.
- 1:32:54QuestionWhat happened to the workers, foundries, and industrial capacity behind battleship construction after building stopped?AnswerQ&A
Workers retired, died, or moved into other industries, while specialist foundries and production lines closed or went dormant and later had to be rebuilt.
- 1:33:41Why uninterrupted shipbuilding changes later warship designNotable Point
Keeping orders moving preserves skills and production capacity that are expensive to recreate after a building holiday.
- 1:34:40How continuous orders accelerate guns and capital-ship designNotable Point
Repeated two-ship and one-ship orders would turn the 1920s into a design sequence, preserving gun production and feeding lessons from each class into the next.
- 1:39:56QuestionWhy did Japan convert Kaga rather than another Amagi-class hull after the earthquake damaged Amagi?AnswerQ&A
Atago and Takao were less complete and had already progressed further toward dismantling, making Kaga the more practical replacement hull.
- 1:43:55QuestionWould a 12,000-ton, 9.2-inch cruiser ceiling make the Pensacola class a good ship?AnswerQ&A
It could produce a different and better ship, but if the design remained reconnaissance-focused it would be a strong scout rather than an ideal cruiser fighter.
- 1:44:12QuestionHow would continued capital-ship construction affect Japanese cruiser and destroyer development?AnswerQ&A
Japan might build fewer top-heavy cruisers and destroyers because the new capital ships would already provide strength that smaller types historically had to offset.
- 1:44:32QuestionWhy not convert or replace the Kongō-class ships under the separate battlecruiser allowance?AnswerQ&A
They were too new to replace legally, still fitted Japanese scouting doctrine, and gave Japan four useful ships where the same tonnage might buy only three larger ones.
- 1:46:31France’s need for a credible fast battleshipChapter
France can build three new battleships, but slow 13.4-inch-gun designs would be badly outmatched by fast Italian capital ships.
- 1:47:34QuestionWhich navy was most adversely affected in submarines by the naval treaties?AnswerQ&A
Britain gave up the most momentum because it had the world's largest and perhaps most advanced submarine arm, but no signatory was close enough to the limit to be severely constrained in actual construction.
- 1:48:08QuestionWhy would Britain not push the cruiser gun limit up to 10 inches?AnswerQ&A
Because the United States wanted the smallest possible cruiser weapon and 9.2 inches already represented the upper end of the contemporary negotiating range.
- 1:48:56QuestionWhat was the worst treaty effect on destroyer design?AnswerQ&A
Japan's top-heavy destroyers were the clearest example, packing excessive capability into constrained hulls.
- 1:57:40Italy’s Francesco Caracciolo opportunityChapter
Italy is one of the great beneficiaries: it can complete the Francesco Caracciolos and later build a second generation of fast battleships.
- 2:02:59QuestionWould it make sense for Italy to convert a Francesco Caracciolo-class hull into an aircraft carrier?AnswerQ&A
It could work technically, but Italy would probably still prioritize battleships because the Regia Aeronautica argued that land-based aircraft could cover the Mediterranean.
- 2:07:21QuestionCould Italy secure enough oil to operate a much stronger fast-battleship fleet?AnswerQ&A
Possibly, but only if it recognized the logistical requirement and built fuel depots and strategic reserves before the war.
- 2:08:31QuestionHow would four Francesco Caracciolo-class battleships affect Italian cruiser design?AnswerQ&A
Italy might place less emphasis on heavy cruisers and favor very fast light cruisers because the battle line already supplies heavy striking power.
- 2:09:49QuestionHow good was Italian battleship armour, and why did Italy prefer fast battleships to battlecruisers?AnswerQ&A
Italian protection was strong for its intended theatre, while a fast battleship could manoeuvre across the Mediterranean and still survive the close fleet action Italy expected against France.
- 2:13:02QuestionDid Italian torpedoes have fewer wartime problems because the navy usually fought near its testing environment?AnswerQ&A
Yes, operating conditions helped, although Italian submarines still encountered torpedo problems in the North Atlantic.
- 2:14:46QuestionHow fast could an upgraded R-class battleship become with small-tube boilers?AnswerQ&A
Probably no more than about 25 knots, because reaching 28 knots would require major changes to machinery space, shafts, hull proportions, and possibly armament.
- 2:16:42QuestionWere Italy's battleship gunnery problems caused by poor targeting?AnswerQ&A
No; the principal problem described here was inconsistent shell quality, which made accurately aimed rounds follow unpredictable trajectories.
- 2:18:22America completes its Colorado and Lexington investmentsChapter
Because Congress has already funded them, the United States is likely to complete a fourth Colorado and five Lexington battlecruisers rather than start fresh programmes.
- 2:22:12The Lexingtons as America's fast scouting forceNotable Point
Five Lexington battlecruisers give the slow American battle line a fast arm designed for reconnaissance, economic warfare, and independent support rather than equal-line combat.
- 2:24:24QuestionWhy would the United States not sacrifice more Lexington-class hulls for aircraft carriers?AnswerQ&A
Carrier value was still theoretical in 1922, whereas the Lexingtons were already funded and matched the navy's established scouting doctrine.
- 2:31:57A 28-knot treaty world makes America's battle line obsoleteNotable Point
Fast British and Japanese capital ships would expose the 21-knot American battle line and make a historical 27-knot Yamato an inadequate answer to the new environment.
- 2:36:42A London treaty built around replacement, not a holidayNotable Point
If capital-ship construction continues through the 1920s, a later treaty may regulate replacement and light carriers instead of imposing the historical naval holiday.
- 2:43:35Why this treaty world is harshest for GermanyNotable Point
A stronger, faster Royal Navy makes Germany’s small surface raiders and later fast battleships far less useful as an offset strategy.
- 2:54:44Investment may soften recession without preventing dictatorshipNotable Point
Continuing naval orders could support employment and technology through the Depression, but the political coalition that brought Hitler to power cannot be reduced to economic conditions alone.
- 2:57:15Larger carriers reshape the interwar fleetChapter
Higher carrier limits could produce earlier, more capable fleet carriers and link them closely to fast battlecruiser scouting forces.
- 2:58:58Larger allowances preserve different British and American carrier prioritiesNotable Point
Extra displacement could bring Implacable- and Essex-scale capabilities forward while leaving Britain protection-heavy and America aircraft-heavy in their design choices.
- 3:02:50A light-carrier category creates new American and Japanese branchesNotable Point
A 16,000-ton London category could improve Ranger- and Wasp-like ships while changing which Japanese hull replaces Amagi after the earthquake.
- 3:08:35A less insecure Japan may stay in the treaty systemNotable Point
Giving Japan meaningful construction rights may reduce the insecurity that made the historical treaty order increasingly unstable.
- 3:09:38QuestionWould larger and more numerous carriers return the Fleet Air Arm to Royal Navy control earlier?AnswerQ&A
Probably not; the 1918 decision arose before the treaty divergence, and the transfer back would likely still wait for the 1937 Inskip decision.
- 3:10:28How overwhelming deterrence can create insecurityNotable Point
American negotiators could rationally expect superiority to deter war while overlooking how the same imbalance might make Japan frightened and more willing to take dangerous risks.
- 3:15:49Taranto, Japan, and a radically different Second World WarChapter
More and larger carriers could make Taranto far more destructive, while a Japan invested in the treaty system might pursue partnership with Britain rather than the Axis.
- 3:16:26How larger carriers multiply the Taranto strikeNotable Point
A larger Illustrious and the possible survival of Glorious could turn Taranto from a small specialist raid into several waves of torpedo and dive bombers.
- 3:20:54Japan's treaty stake opens an Anglo-Japanese pathNotable Point
A Japan that sees the treaty order as beneficial could invoke the memory of its British alliance and enter the European war against Germany and Italy instead of joining the Axis.
- 3:29:50QuestionHow would the United States acquire the experience needed to build much larger carriers?AnswerQ&A
Converting the unfinished Lexington-class USS United States would create an early large-carrier test bed, while otherwise the navy would have to learn through successive smaller classes.
- 3:31:55QuestionWould Japan still build torpedo-focused destroyers such as Shimakaze?AnswerQ&A
Possibly; if Japan no longer relies on Yamato-type battleships as its main offset, it may continue seeking advantage through powerful torpedoes and fast destroyers.
- 3:32:53QuestionWithout the First World War, how long might US carrier and fleet modernization have been delayed?AnswerQ&A
Possibly until the late 1920s, because political enthusiasm concentrated on top-line battleships while the supporting fleet received less attention.
- 3:35:15QuestionIf Japan joined Britain against Germany and Italy, would the United States still enter the war?AnswerQ&A
Probably yes; Washington could not comfortably allow Britain and Japan to win together and dominate the post-war order without American participation.
- 3:38:20QuestionWould a large British cruiser look more like a miniature Renown or a miniature Hood?AnswerQ&A
It might instead use an all-forward Nelson-style layout if repeated capital-ship construction made that arrangement the standard British solution.
- 3:40:23QuestionWould Japan still invade China if it aligned with Britain against Germany and Italy?AnswerQ&A
The Sino-Japanese War was already underway, so the key uncertainty is whether Japan widens it and whether Britain continues supporting China after accepting Japanese help.
- 3:42:27QuestionWould a 12,000-ton, 9.2-inch cruiser category bring the fast-firing 6-inch gun into service earlier or later?AnswerQ&A
Probably at about the same time, because the decisive factor is the pace of gun technology rather than the displacement available to the ship.
- 3:43:19QuestionWhat might the Cold War look like after a powerful British-Japanese alliance wins the Second World War?AnswerQ&A
Much depends on the war's outcome, but Japan could become a more acceptable non-communist partner than the Soviet Union and join Britain and America in a radically different great-power settlement.
- 3:47:37QuestionCould Germany still take Norway without a strong navy in this alternate timeline?AnswerQ&A
It becomes much less likely because Germany lacks the ships, experience, and freedom to build the naval force that supported the historical operation.
- 3:53:03QuestionWhy would the British still lead the torpedo attack at Taranto instead of leaving the harbour strike to Japanese aircraft?AnswerQ&A
British air-dropped torpedoes had the specialized shallow-water entry system proven for Taranto, whereas a deeper dive would send many weapons into the seabed before they could reach a target.
- 3:54:34QuestionHow different would British naval aviation be if it had access to the Sea Harrier II or Harrier II?AnswerQ&A
Britain would probably build or adapt the improved version, since it already possessed the underlying Harrier design tradition.