Video

Patreon Bonus: Battle Cruisers & Battleships are separate Categories in the Washington Naval Treaty

Study Patreon Bonus: Battle Cruisers & Battleships are separate Categories in the Washington Naval Treaty, a Dr. Alex Clarke video from 26 Oct 2023, with 75 time notes. Topics include Alternate History, Battlecruisers…

Date
Runtime4:07:11
Guide points75 time notes

Time notes

  1. 5:34
    Why battlecruisers need a separate treaty category

    The opening problem: the Washington treaty divides ships into capital ships, carriers, and an "other" category, rather than treating battlecruisers as a distinct class.

    Chapter
  2. 11:23
    The 5:5:3 ratio and America’s fifteen-ship battle line

    The historical treaty’s 5:5:3 capital-ship ratio reflected American insistence on a battle line of fifteen ships, a constraint that shapes the alternate settlement.

    Notable Point
  3. 18:35
    Why carrier spotting belongs in capital-ship planning

    Interwar carriers support the battle line not only by scouting but by correcting gunfire, which ties carrier size and speed to the number of fast capital ships at sea.

    Notable Point
  4. 20:40
    QuestionWhy was the United States not allowed to complete at least one Lexington battlecruiser when Britain retained Hood and Japan retained the Kongōs?Answer

    American negotiators treated Hood as equivalent value to a Colorado, while a 42,000-ton Lexington would have exceeded the treaty's ordinary 35,000-ton capital-ship ceiling.

    Q&A
  5. 22:14
    Carrier limits, ratios, and the conversion exception

    The historical treaty capped ordinary carriers at 27,000 tons and 8-inch guns while allowing Britain, America, and Japan two larger capital-ship conversions apiece.

    Notable Point
  6. 25:01
    A treaty with battlecruiser tonnage of its own

    Britain’s worldwide commitments make a separate battlecruiser allowance the central bargaining point in this alternate Washington conference.

    Chapter
  7. 34:53
    QuestionCould the United States use its economic leverage to force Britain to accept a treaty without a separate battlecruiser category?Answer

    Not reliably; post-First World War leverage was less centralized, and a British walkout would likely take France, Japan, and Italy with it and leave Congress facing the naval spending it wanted to avoid.

    Q&A
  8. 36:02
    QuestionWhy not impose a speed limit on battleships in this version of the Washington treaty?Answer

    Because speed caps were not part of the contemporary Washington framework, while displacement already forced designers to trade speed against armour, armament, and endurance.

    Q&A
  9. 39:03
    Why France and Italy choose battleships over battlecruisers

    France and Italy are better served by moving their theoretical battlecruiser allowance into battleship tonnage for a Mediterranean rivalry.

    Notable Point
  10. 47:35
    Cruisers and small carriers outside the main limits

    Washington imposed no cumulative cruiser tonnage limit, and that loophole complicates both cruiser building and the treatment of small carriers.

    Notable Point
  11. 47:47
    QuestionCould France convert some battleship tonnage into heavy-cruiser tonnage?Answer

    It could ask, but the exchange would not solve France's central problem because cruisers could not counter Italy's fast battleships and Washington imposed no aggregate cruiser tonnage limit anyway.

    Q&A
  12. 50:05
    QuestionWhy did France accept parity with Italy at Washington?Answer

    Italy refused to sign for less than France received, while France was economically weak and unwilling to remain outside the treaty.

    Q&A
  13. 53:43
    QuestionWhat cruiser might the Royal Navy build after the E class under this alternate treaty?Answer

    Probably something like an enlarged County-style reconnaissance cruiser with 9.2-inch guns, alongside an earlier evolution toward a Leander-like light cruiser.

    Q&A
  14. 54:38
    QuestionHow would the proposed 12,000-ton threshold apply to HMS Hermes?Answer

    Hermes might sit outside the counted carrier tonnage, encouraging navies to build useful small carriers below the threshold.

    Q&A
  15. 56:34
    Britain’s construction programme and industrial continuity

    A separate category lets Britain retain Hood, Renown, and Repulse while building new battleships and battlecruisers before 1930.

    Chapter
  16. 59:15
    How extra tonnage could produce a 28-knot Nelson-type battleship

    A few thousand additional tons could combine Nelson-class protection with an F3-style hull and machinery arrangement to create a much faster first postwar battleship.

    Notable Point
  17. 1:04:51
    QuestionHow would the historical capital-ship building holiday work in this alternate treaty?Answer

    It would become a controlled programme: each navy could build only the ships and sequence written into the agreement, preventing surprises without stopping construction.

    Q&A
  18. 1:06:09
    QuestionWould the proposed 12,000-ton cruisers automatically be heavy cruisers?Answer

    No; the heavy-cruiser category did not yet exist in the treaty, and the proposed ships developed from the large-light-cruiser and scouting tradition.

    Q&A
  19. 1:07:16
    Naval orders as regional employment and industrial policy

    British governments could distribute recurring warship orders to preserve strategically useful yards while supporting regions suffering economic decline.

    Notable Point
  20. 1:08:26
    A 38,000-ton F3-derived British battlecruiser

    Scaling the F3 study toward the available treaty tonnage could produce a very fast British battlecruiser, especially if a 15-inch/50 armament saved weight.

    Notable Point
  21. 1:10:24
    Renown and Repulse as Commonwealth fast-capital-ship forces

    New British battlecruisers could make Renown and Repulse available to Australia and New Zealand, spreading cost while maintaining fast ships in the Pacific.

    Notable Point
  22. 1:15:55
    QuestionWould continued capital-ship construction push the Royal Navy toward high-pressure boilers?Answer

    It could, because recurring fast-capital-ship designs would keep machinery efficiency and power density under active development.

    Q&A
  23. 1:16:47
    QuestionWould powers outside the five treaty navies build battleships or battlecruisers in this scenario?Answer

    Probably not; states without an existing capital-ship industry would have to order abroad, and few had a strategic need or budget strong enough to justify doing so.

    Q&A
  24. 1:18:21
    QuestionWould the separate battlecruiser force operate at the front of the line of battle as scouts?Answer

    It could perform reconnaissance, but that does not mean placing battlecruisers at the front of the battle line.

    Q&A
  25. 1:19:38
    QuestionWould the larger carrier allowance change naval-aircraft procurement straight away?Answer

    Not necessarily; aircraft and engine development, lift dimensions, and hangar design matter more directly than the carrier's total displacement.

    Q&A
  26. 1:20:10
    QuestionDid the Washington treaty forbid signatories from building capital ships for other nations?Answer

    No; it required disclosure of foreign orders and prevented the builder from taking those ships into its own service.

    Q&A
  27. 1:21:35
    How to keep a naval counterfactual bounded

    The analysis keeps decisions made before the treaty divergence fixed and changes later events only when they follow causally from the new settlement.

    Notable Point
  28. 1:22:43
    QuestionWould Russia try to build battleships or battlecruisers in this alternate treaty world?Answer

    It might try, as it did historically, but weak infrastructure and the loss of admirals and engineers would still prevent a successful programme.

    Q&A
  29. 1:22:57
    Japan keeps the Kongōs and gains new capital-ship options

    Japan can retain the four Kongōs within a separate battlecruiser allowance while using capital-ship tonnage for four new battleships.

    Chapter
  30. 1:32:54
    QuestionWhat happened to the workers, foundries, and industrial capacity behind battleship construction after building stopped?Answer

    Workers retired, died, or moved into other industries, while specialist foundries and production lines closed or went dormant and later had to be rebuilt.

    Q&A
  31. 1:33:41
    Why uninterrupted shipbuilding changes later warship design

    Keeping orders moving preserves skills and production capacity that are expensive to recreate after a building holiday.

    Notable Point
  32. 1:34:40
    How continuous orders accelerate guns and capital-ship design

    Repeated two-ship and one-ship orders would turn the 1920s into a design sequence, preserving gun production and feeding lessons from each class into the next.

    Notable Point
  33. 1:39:56
    QuestionWhy did Japan convert Kaga rather than another Amagi-class hull after the earthquake damaged Amagi?Answer

    Atago and Takao were less complete and had already progressed further toward dismantling, making Kaga the more practical replacement hull.

    Q&A
  34. 1:43:55
    QuestionWould a 12,000-ton, 9.2-inch cruiser ceiling make the Pensacola class a good ship?Answer

    It could produce a different and better ship, but if the design remained reconnaissance-focused it would be a strong scout rather than an ideal cruiser fighter.

    Q&A
  35. 1:44:12
    QuestionHow would continued capital-ship construction affect Japanese cruiser and destroyer development?Answer

    Japan might build fewer top-heavy cruisers and destroyers because the new capital ships would already provide strength that smaller types historically had to offset.

    Q&A
  36. 1:44:32
    QuestionWhy not convert or replace the Kongō-class ships under the separate battlecruiser allowance?Answer

    They were too new to replace legally, still fitted Japanese scouting doctrine, and gave Japan four useful ships where the same tonnage might buy only three larger ones.

    Q&A
  37. 1:46:31
    France’s need for a credible fast battleship

    France can build three new battleships, but slow 13.4-inch-gun designs would be badly outmatched by fast Italian capital ships.

    Chapter
  38. 1:47:34
    QuestionWhich navy was most adversely affected in submarines by the naval treaties?Answer

    Britain gave up the most momentum because it had the world's largest and perhaps most advanced submarine arm, but no signatory was close enough to the limit to be severely constrained in actual construction.

    Q&A
  39. 1:48:08
    QuestionWhy would Britain not push the cruiser gun limit up to 10 inches?Answer

    Because the United States wanted the smallest possible cruiser weapon and 9.2 inches already represented the upper end of the contemporary negotiating range.

    Q&A
  40. 1:48:56
    QuestionWhat was the worst treaty effect on destroyer design?Answer

    Japan's top-heavy destroyers were the clearest example, packing excessive capability into constrained hulls.

    Q&A
  41. 1:57:40
    Italy’s Francesco Caracciolo opportunity

    Italy is one of the great beneficiaries: it can complete the Francesco Caracciolos and later build a second generation of fast battleships.

    Chapter
  42. 2:02:59
    QuestionWould it make sense for Italy to convert a Francesco Caracciolo-class hull into an aircraft carrier?Answer

    It could work technically, but Italy would probably still prioritize battleships because the Regia Aeronautica argued that land-based aircraft could cover the Mediterranean.

    Q&A
  43. 2:07:21
    QuestionCould Italy secure enough oil to operate a much stronger fast-battleship fleet?Answer

    Possibly, but only if it recognized the logistical requirement and built fuel depots and strategic reserves before the war.

    Q&A
  44. 2:08:31
    QuestionHow would four Francesco Caracciolo-class battleships affect Italian cruiser design?Answer

    Italy might place less emphasis on heavy cruisers and favor very fast light cruisers because the battle line already supplies heavy striking power.

    Q&A
  45. 2:09:49
    QuestionHow good was Italian battleship armour, and why did Italy prefer fast battleships to battlecruisers?Answer

    Italian protection was strong for its intended theatre, while a fast battleship could manoeuvre across the Mediterranean and still survive the close fleet action Italy expected against France.

    Q&A
  46. 2:13:02
    QuestionDid Italian torpedoes have fewer wartime problems because the navy usually fought near its testing environment?Answer

    Yes, operating conditions helped, although Italian submarines still encountered torpedo problems in the North Atlantic.

    Q&A
  47. 2:14:46
    QuestionHow fast could an upgraded R-class battleship become with small-tube boilers?Answer

    Probably no more than about 25 knots, because reaching 28 knots would require major changes to machinery space, shafts, hull proportions, and possibly armament.

    Q&A
  48. 2:16:42
    QuestionWere Italy's battleship gunnery problems caused by poor targeting?Answer

    No; the principal problem described here was inconsistent shell quality, which made accurately aimed rounds follow unpredictable trajectories.

    Q&A
  49. 2:18:22
    America completes its Colorado and Lexington investments

    Because Congress has already funded them, the United States is likely to complete a fourth Colorado and five Lexington battlecruisers rather than start fresh programmes.

    Chapter
  50. 2:22:12
    The Lexingtons as America's fast scouting force

    Five Lexington battlecruisers give the slow American battle line a fast arm designed for reconnaissance, economic warfare, and independent support rather than equal-line combat.

    Notable Point
  51. 2:24:24
    QuestionWhy would the United States not sacrifice more Lexington-class hulls for aircraft carriers?Answer

    Carrier value was still theoretical in 1922, whereas the Lexingtons were already funded and matched the navy's established scouting doctrine.

    Q&A
  52. 2:31:57
    A 28-knot treaty world makes America's battle line obsolete

    Fast British and Japanese capital ships would expose the 21-knot American battle line and make a historical 27-knot Yamato an inadequate answer to the new environment.

    Notable Point
  53. 2:36:42
    A London treaty built around replacement, not a holiday

    If capital-ship construction continues through the 1920s, a later treaty may regulate replacement and light carriers instead of imposing the historical naval holiday.

    Notable Point
  54. 2:43:35
    Why this treaty world is harshest for Germany

    A stronger, faster Royal Navy makes Germany’s small surface raiders and later fast battleships far less useful as an offset strategy.

    Notable Point
  55. 2:54:44
    Investment may soften recession without preventing dictatorship

    Continuing naval orders could support employment and technology through the Depression, but the political coalition that brought Hitler to power cannot be reduced to economic conditions alone.

    Notable Point
  56. 2:57:15
    Larger carriers reshape the interwar fleet

    Higher carrier limits could produce earlier, more capable fleet carriers and link them closely to fast battlecruiser scouting forces.

    Chapter
  57. 2:58:58
    Larger allowances preserve different British and American carrier priorities

    Extra displacement could bring Implacable- and Essex-scale capabilities forward while leaving Britain protection-heavy and America aircraft-heavy in their design choices.

    Notable Point
  58. 3:02:50
    A light-carrier category creates new American and Japanese branches

    A 16,000-ton London category could improve Ranger- and Wasp-like ships while changing which Japanese hull replaces Amagi after the earthquake.

    Notable Point
  59. 3:08:35
    A less insecure Japan may stay in the treaty system

    Giving Japan meaningful construction rights may reduce the insecurity that made the historical treaty order increasingly unstable.

    Notable Point
  60. 3:09:38
    QuestionWould larger and more numerous carriers return the Fleet Air Arm to Royal Navy control earlier?Answer

    Probably not; the 1918 decision arose before the treaty divergence, and the transfer back would likely still wait for the 1937 Inskip decision.

    Q&A
  61. 3:10:28
    How overwhelming deterrence can create insecurity

    American negotiators could rationally expect superiority to deter war while overlooking how the same imbalance might make Japan frightened and more willing to take dangerous risks.

    Notable Point
  62. 3:15:49
    Taranto, Japan, and a radically different Second World War

    More and larger carriers could make Taranto far more destructive, while a Japan invested in the treaty system might pursue partnership with Britain rather than the Axis.

    Chapter
  63. 3:16:26
    How larger carriers multiply the Taranto strike

    A larger Illustrious and the possible survival of Glorious could turn Taranto from a small specialist raid into several waves of torpedo and dive bombers.

    Notable Point
  64. 3:20:54
    Japan's treaty stake opens an Anglo-Japanese path

    A Japan that sees the treaty order as beneficial could invoke the memory of its British alliance and enter the European war against Germany and Italy instead of joining the Axis.

    Notable Point
  65. 3:29:50
    QuestionHow would the United States acquire the experience needed to build much larger carriers?Answer

    Converting the unfinished Lexington-class USS United States would create an early large-carrier test bed, while otherwise the navy would have to learn through successive smaller classes.

    Q&A
  66. 3:31:55
    QuestionWould Japan still build torpedo-focused destroyers such as Shimakaze?Answer

    Possibly; if Japan no longer relies on Yamato-type battleships as its main offset, it may continue seeking advantage through powerful torpedoes and fast destroyers.

    Q&A
  67. 3:32:53
    QuestionWithout the First World War, how long might US carrier and fleet modernization have been delayed?Answer

    Possibly until the late 1920s, because political enthusiasm concentrated on top-line battleships while the supporting fleet received less attention.

    Q&A
  68. 3:35:15
    QuestionIf Japan joined Britain against Germany and Italy, would the United States still enter the war?Answer

    Probably yes; Washington could not comfortably allow Britain and Japan to win together and dominate the post-war order without American participation.

    Q&A
  69. 3:38:20
    QuestionWould a large British cruiser look more like a miniature Renown or a miniature Hood?Answer

    It might instead use an all-forward Nelson-style layout if repeated capital-ship construction made that arrangement the standard British solution.

    Q&A
  70. 3:40:23
    QuestionWould Japan still invade China if it aligned with Britain against Germany and Italy?Answer

    The Sino-Japanese War was already underway, so the key uncertainty is whether Japan widens it and whether Britain continues supporting China after accepting Japanese help.

    Q&A
  71. 3:42:27
    QuestionWould a 12,000-ton, 9.2-inch cruiser category bring the fast-firing 6-inch gun into service earlier or later?Answer

    Probably at about the same time, because the decisive factor is the pace of gun technology rather than the displacement available to the ship.

    Q&A
  72. 3:43:19
    QuestionWhat might the Cold War look like after a powerful British-Japanese alliance wins the Second World War?Answer

    Much depends on the war's outcome, but Japan could become a more acceptable non-communist partner than the Soviet Union and join Britain and America in a radically different great-power settlement.

    Q&A
  73. 3:47:37
    QuestionCould Germany still take Norway without a strong navy in this alternate timeline?Answer

    It becomes much less likely because Germany lacks the ships, experience, and freedom to build the naval force that supported the historical operation.

    Q&A
  74. 3:53:03
    QuestionWhy would the British still lead the torpedo attack at Taranto instead of leaving the harbour strike to Japanese aircraft?Answer

    British air-dropped torpedoes had the specialized shallow-water entry system proven for Taranto, whereas a deeper dive would send many weapons into the seabed before they could reach a target.

    Q&A
  75. 3:54:34
    QuestionHow different would British naval aviation be if it had access to the Sea Harrier II or Harrier II?Answer

    Britain would probably build or adapt the improved version, since it already possessed the underlying Harrier design tradition.

    Q&A