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Alternate History - Royal Navy retains the Fleet 'units' of Royal Naval Air Service: Patreon 76
Study Alternate History - Royal Navy retains the Fleet 'units' of Royal Naval Air Service: Patreon 76, a Dr. Alex Clarke video from 13 Apr 2023, with 80 time notes. Topics include Aircraft Carriers, Alternate History…
Time notes
- 0:49The counterfactual: RNAS fleet units stay navalChapter
The scenario keeps the ship-operating units of the Royal Naval Air Service under Admiralty control after 1918, rather than simply moving the later Fleet Air Arm intact.
- 4:46QuestionWould the retained naval force include land-based aircraft?AnswerQ&A
Only fleet-connected land-based elements are retained; the RAF still receives the broader land-based air force and Coastal Command functions.
- 8:12Why naval logistics changes aircraft procurementNotable Point
Keeping naval aviation inside the Admiralty preserves accounting, spares, and bulk-purchasing practices that can sustain aircraft and engine production more effectively.
- 12:23QuestionWould the arrangement resemble the separate Japanese Army and Navy air services?AnswerQ&A
No. The RAF remains a major independent service with bombers, fighters, Coastal Command, and most land-based aviation, while the Navy controls only its fleet-connected aircraft.
- 15:32QuestionDid British use of French aircraft engines show that France was technologically ahead?AnswerQ&A
Not necessarily. French engines and parts were easier to source in France, and the RNAS had a stronger system for sustaining them.
- 19:45A major air service needs a voice at the AdmiraltyChapter
The RNAS had grown into one of the world's largest air services by 1918, supporting the case for retaining the Fifth Sea Lord and an aviation advocate within naval command.
- 25:44Engineering culture divided the RNAS from the RFCNotable Point
Earlier naval integration of engineering officers provides one explanation for differences between RNAS practice, RFC culture, and the Air Ministry's later emphasis on bombing.
- 29:05QuestionDid RFC accounting simply ignore spare parts?AnswerQ&A
The RFC had support and accounting systems, but these worked less well for aviation than the RNAS arrangements. The comparison is deliberately simplified.
- 35:21QuestionWould worldwide naval logistics leave the Dominion air forces better supported?AnswerQ&A
Probably, because a larger Fleet Air Arm infrastructure and production network would already exist around the world.
- 37:12QuestionWould retaining these naval aviators provide future carrier captains with more flying experience?AnswerQ&A
Yes. It would preserve the flow of naval aviation officers into senior appointments, while the Navy would still draw carrier captains from broader professional backgrounds.
- 39:28Why battleship investment did not exclude aviationNotable Point
The Royal Navy's willingness to fund aircraft and aviation institutions complicates the shorthand that interwar admirals were simply battleship-minded.
- 42:20RNAS patrols against U-boats in 1917Notable Point
Before the 1918 transfer, RNAS aircraft already searched thousands of square miles for U-boats each day, giving the fleet a practical patrol capability worth retaining.
- 45:13Jutland as the proof of fleet aviationChapter
A modest improvement in aircraft-to-fleet radio communications at Jutland makes spotting and reconnaissance visibly valuable to Jellicoe's battle fleet.
- 50:18Why aircraft basing limits the idea that the air is oneNotable Point
Carrier and shore-based aircraft need different support arrangements, giving fleet aviation an operational reason to remain under naval control.
- 53:40Emergency aircraft spares cross the Channel by destroyerNotable Point
A destroyer could expedite spare parts between Channel depots, provided the service needing them requested the transport.
- 54:42Information is potential until a force can actNotable Point
Reconnaissance creates opportunity, but ships, supplies, and mobility must turn what commanders know into an operational effect.
- 57:34The Sea Is One case for naval air basesChapter
A fleet-controlled air arm would retain a smaller but global chain of bases and treat aviation as part of the same support system as ships, fuel, and rearmament.
- 1:00:17The failures above HMS Glorious's captainNotable Point
The loss of HMS Glorious exposed a hazardous command decision above the ship as well as her captain's failure to fly patrols.
- 1:04:41QuestionWould retaining the Fleet Air Arm affect British aircraft and anti-aircraft technology?AnswerQ&A
Yes. In-house expertise gives the Admiralty a direct route to industry instead of relying on answers filtered through the Air Ministry.
- 1:07:56Avoiding divided ranks and divided carrier crewsNotable Point
Continuous naval control avoids the dual-rank system and makes flying personnel, fitters, and carrier crews part of one command and damage-control structure.
- 1:11:12A stronger air component for mobile naval basesNotable Point
A fleet-owned air arm could make shore-based fighters and support personnel a normal part of temporary naval bases, potentially changing the defence of Crete.
- 1:12:29Naval purchasing power in the contest over aircraft procurementChapter
The Admiralty's wider purchases from major manufacturers could help it resist Air Ministry control over naval aircraft procurement.
- 1:14:04How launches multiply the Admiralty's engine ordersNotable Point
Launches, aircraft, and torpedo boats create a combined engine market that can sustain suppliers and press for more power.
- 1:17:33Aircraft suppliers face competing service buyersNotable Point
Separate procurement could either encourage cooperation or draw aircraft firms toward different service customers.
- 1:19:52QuestionWould Britain have enough production capacity for the RAF and Royal Navy to buy different aircraft?AnswerQ&A
Yes. The services historically bought many distinct types already, with occasional adaptations providing useful commonality.
- 1:21:00A Washington treaty category for scout carriersChapter
The scenario turns the treaty's carrier limits toward a distinct 12,000-ton scout-carrier category, giving reconnaissance and spotting a durable place in force structure.
- 1:30:02Experimental carriers can be replaced before the age limitNotable Point
Experimental status creates room to replace early carriers while respecting the scenario's total tonnage limits.
- 1:32:01Scout carriers for global cruiser stationsNotable Point
Hermes-derived scout carriers would accompany cruiser squadrons on distant stations, where their aircraft extend search and presence beyond a cruiser's visual horizon.
- 1:35:30Successive scout carriers refine the Hermes designNotable Point
A steady building programme could improve machinery, speed, and arrangements within the 12,000-ton limit.
- 1:39:27QuestionWould the 12,000-ton scout carriers share machinery with the County-class cruisers?AnswerQ&A
Probably. Common machinery would save money, although the carriers would probably receive no eight-inch guns.
- 1:39:48QuestionWould small carrier tonnage and growing aircraft lead the Royal Navy to adopt deck-edge lifts earlier?AnswerQ&A
Possibly, but fear of heavy seas entering the hangar would continue to weigh against the design.
- 1:41:51QuestionDid concern about heavy seas explain near-centreline lifts in the 1952 fleet-carrier designs and CVA-01?AnswerQ&A
Yes. The concern was seawater entering the hangar, illustrated by the heavy seas encountered by British carriers in the South Atlantic.
- 1:43:33More small carriers create a stronger fleet-carrier benchChapter
A larger scout-carrier force supports improved Ark Royal- or Illustrious-scale fleet carriers by producing more experienced officers, crews, and damage-control specialists.
- 1:49:33QuestionWould Japan try to pass Soryu off as a 12,000-ton scout carrier?AnswerQ&A
Probably, although the suggestion is not developed into a detailed design.
- 1:49:55Why steam catapults do not arrive immediatelyNotable Point
A larger carrier programme creates more experience with launch equipment, but it does not bypass the existing progression from hydraulic accelerators toward steam catapults.
- 1:50:41QuestionCould welding save enough weight for another carrier, or was its adoption chiefly a technological timing problem?AnswerQ&A
Repeated construction could encourage greater use of welding in later scout carriers and Ark Royal, although no weight saving is calculated.
- 1:51:39QuestionWould American and Japanese aircraft technology change along with the British programme?AnswerQ&A
Yes, but the direction cannot be forecast precisely because intelligence, treaty choices, and design responses create too many feedback loops.
- 1:53:31How scout carriers change the path to UnicornNotable Point
A mature 12,000-ton scout-carrier hull could replace Unicorn's depot-carrier role or provide an alternative starting point for wartime light fleet carriers.
- 1:55:46QuestionWould seaplanes and flying boats remain with the Royal Navy?AnswerQ&A
Those operating from ships would remain naval; Coastal Command's land-based aircraft would stay with the RAF.
- 1:57:08A higher carrier ceiling gives foreign navies different choicesNotable Point
A 30,000-ton ceiling could encourage more protected foreign carriers or still larger air groups.
- 1:59:48QuestionCould Australia receive its own scout carriers in this scenario?AnswerQ&A
Possibly, but they would count against the combined British and Dominion treaty allowance and operate within the wider imperial naval system.
- 2:00:48QuestionWould the proposed 30,000-ton carrier resemble the Audacious class?AnswerQ&A
The closer comparison is Implacable, with an Ark Royal-sized air group and Illustrious-style armour, while hangar dimensions remain a design choice.
- 2:03:12Carrier experience drives better destroyer air defenceNotable Point
A navy with deeper aviation expertise is more likely to demand genuinely high-angle dual-purpose destroyer mounts and to understand the limits of pre-war exercise assumptions.
- 2:08:22QuestionWould Dominion crews rotate through the Fleet Air Arm to gain experience?AnswerQ&A
Probably. Their integration with the wider fleet would make participation likely from the outset.
- 2:08:56QuestionWould later scout-carrier classes naturally grow beyond the first 12,000-ton ships?AnswerQ&A
No. The treaty ceiling holds them to 12,000 tons, so later ships improve through batch-by-batch design changes within that limit.
- 2:12:01Scout carriers turn into convoy air coverChapter
The smaller carriers give the Royal Navy a pre-war design and trained force for anti-submarine and convoy work, rather than creating escort carriers only after the war exposes the need.
- 2:15:32Scout-carrier air groups change with their stationNotable Point
TSR aircraft would dominate most scout-carrier groups, with fighters more likely aboard ships assigned to the China Station.
- 2:16:40More engine power for torpedo-spotter-reconnaissance aircraftNotable Point
Naval demand could raise standard engine power to an estimated 1,500-1,600 horsepower by 1938-1939 while preserving the practical requirements of TSR aircraft.
- 2:18:09Why torpedo delivery could preserve the Swordfish biplaneNotable Point
Accurate low-speed flight supports the torpedo-entry arrangement, leaving a role for a more powerful Swordfish-like biplane.
- 2:21:49Naval engine investment could also improve RAF fightersNotable Point
Higher naval engine requirements could provide more powerful engines for Air Ministry aircraft too.
- 2:24:38A mature naval dive-bomber and fighter pipelineChapter
Keeping naval aviation continuously in-house could make 1939 aircraft the result of several development cycles, not the first serious generation after institutional recovery.
- 2:26:22Making ships visible for a night dive-bomber attackNotable Point
A preliminary fighter attack could provoke visible defences and fires to guide dive bombers during a night strike.
- 2:29:04Overseas production could sustain naval fightersNotable Point
A larger naval air establishment makes satellite production in Ceylon, Australia, or Canada more plausible, improving fighter and spare-parts supply in the eastern theatres.
- 2:32:17A scout carrier watches the Norwegian coastNotable Point
Carrier aircraft could observe German movements off Norway from beyond a cruiser's visual horizon, making the historical surprise harder to reproduce.
- 2:35:12QuestionCould naval aircraft be manufactured in Canada?AnswerQ&A
Yes, but ships would still be needed to deliver aircraft and parts to Australia or the Mediterranean.
- 2:36:37QuestionHow could Britain supply enough engines for the expanded naval air arm?AnswerQ&A
Larger peacetime orders would build more production capacity before wartime expansion began.
- 2:38:07QuestionWould a limited supply of engineers prevent the expansion?AnswerQ&A
The workforce could grow through sustained employment and training during the years after 1918.
- 2:40:25QuestionWouldn't the 1933 recession still leave firms struggling to recover in 1938?AnswerQ&A
Yes, but steadier naval orders would leave them recovering from a higher industrial baseline.
- 2:42:14Contra-rotating propellers depend on higher engine powerNotable Point
Earlier engine development could advance contra-rotating propellers, with their arrival still linked to roughly 2,000 horsepower.
- 2:42:28QuestionDoes the Baldwin government's infrastructure spending already address the industrial shortage?AnswerQ&A
It helps, but historical rearmament starts from a reduced base; the scenario preserves more capacity beforehand.
- 2:46:57QuestionIs the proposed interwar industrial expansion too economically ambitious?AnswerQ&A
It depends on preserving more capacity through earlier naval orders, reducing the amount that later rearmament must rebuild.
- 2:50:25Naval orders keep first-year apprentices in the yardsNotable Point
Naval contracts can preserve apprentice training when commercial pressure would otherwise cut the least experienced workers.
- 2:52:48The Battle of the Atlantic with carrier cover from the startChapter
An existing scout-carrier force and early emergency escort-carrier production could provide air cover across the Atlantic sooner.
- 2:58:30QuestionCould scout carriers reduce the need for additional convoy escorts?AnswerQ&A
Yes. Their aircraft could find U-boats farther away, while carrier fighters could intercept Condors before they reported convoy positions.
- 2:59:10QuestionCould a scout carrier attack a pocket battleship while waiting for cruisers?AnswerQ&A
Yes. Some aircraft could maintain contact while others returned to load torpedoes and launch a strike.
- 2:59:53QuestionHow would wolf-pack tactics fare against convoys escorted by carriers from the start?AnswerQ&A
Germany would likely pursue snorkels and greater underwater endurance earlier, but those responses would take time while aircraft increased early U-boat losses.
- 3:01:46QuestionWould Germany still build pocket battleships if Britain had more scout carriers?AnswerQ&A
Probably. The Deutschland class remains close to what German industry can support, although its air defence could improve.
- 3:03:10QuestionWould the larger British carrier force make Germany develop naval aviation earlier?AnswerQ&A
The response is uncertain. Graf Zeppelin would probably reach a similar incomplete state, although completion is not ruled out.
- 3:04:34Why angled flight decks stay outside the scenarioNotable Point
More interwar carriers would not by itself create the requirement for angled flight decks.
- 3:05:00A larger Taranto strike reshapes the MediterraneanChapter
More carrier aircraft and a deeper naval aviation establishment could turn Taranto into a far heavier blow, weakening Italian convoy protection and expanding British choices in the Mediterranean.
- 3:09:16QuestionWould a much stronger naval air arm radically change British battleship design?AnswerQ&A
Not radically. Battleships remain broadly similar, though their dual-purpose and anti-aircraft batteries would probably improve.
- 3:11:48QuestionHow would treaty scout carriers affect Japanese cruiser design?AnswerQ&A
They would probably reduce aviation facilities on cruisers and shift the saved capacity toward guns and more Type 93 torpedoes.
- 3:13:12Japan's scout-carrier allowance favours a size tradeoffNotable Point
Japan could divide its allowance between more small carriers and fewer larger ones, with the latter considered more likely.
- 3:14:13QuestionWere German torpedoes worse than the American Mark 6 exploder?AnswerQ&A
German failures were serious, but no comparative failure rate is given. The distinction drawn is Dönitz's willingness to believe his officers and press the technical specialists for a remedy.
- 3:16:04An Eastern Fleet becomes a more credible deterrentNotable Point
If Atlantic and Mediterranean pressures ease, Britain can hold more useful carrier and capital-ship strength in the Indian Ocean, complicating Japanese planning.
- 3:20:21North African supply losses could release forces before Japan's entryNotable Point
A conditional earlier end to the North African campaign could change Britain's commitments when war spread to Southeast Asia.
- 3:22:03Why test environments mattered to torpedo reliabilityNotable Point
Testing across varied waters offers one explanation for differences in British, German, and American torpedo reliability.
- 3:24:40Why the extra carrier hulls matter mostNotable Point
The decisive change comes from a much larger carrier force and the experience, options, and resilience it creates.
- 3:27:32Foreign navies need not use their carrier allowances alikeNotable Point
The main carrier powers are expected to expand most, while French and Italian choices remain uncertain.
- 3:28:09A separate treaty scenario permits a much larger carrier forceNotable Point
Different treaty assumptions would raise the allowances to ten fleet carriers and twenty scout carriers.