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Tiger Cubs - RN actually builds dreadnought armoured cruisers with 9.2in guns alongside HMS Tiger...
Study Tiger Cubs - RN actually builds dreadnought armoured cruisers with 9.2in guns alongside HMS Tiger..., a Dr. Alex Clarke video from 31 Oct 2024, with 65 time notes. Topics include 9.2-inch Guns, Alternate History…
Time notes
- 2:34The alternate-history case for Tiger CubsChapter
The scenario asks why Britain did not pair HMS Tiger with cheaper, 9.2-inch-gun cruisers while building dreadnoughts.
- 5:22HMS Tiger as the starting pointChapter
HMS Tiger's service dates, 13.5-inch armament, speed, and battlecruiser character set the benchmark for the proposed companion cruisers.
- 8:23The spectrum from battlecruiser to battleshipNotable Point
The proposed ship sits below a battlecruiser in a design spectrum shaped by the trade between speed, armour coverage, and internal subdivision.
- 11:11A 28-knot cruiser with 9.2-inch gunsChapter
The working Tiger Cub concept uses six to eight 9.2-inch guns, 4-inch secondaries, torpedoes, and Tiger-like 28-knot speed.
- 12:31Restoring the station-cruiser roleChapter
Tiger Cubs could supply a station flagship and deterrent presence that increasingly expensive battlecruisers could not provide in sufficient numbers.
- 15:30Small-tube boilers as a practical trialNotable Point
A cheaper cruiser class could trial small-tube boilers without risking a capital ship, while still filling useful operational roles.
- 19:43Idle battleship yards made the class buildableNotable Point
Britain possessed both the political precedent and unused industrial capacity to order Tiger Cubs without displacing its dreadnought programme.
- 21:05QuestionCould the first four ships split between small-tube and conventional boilers to compare the technologies?AnswerQ&A
Probably not: the Navy would likely judge the cruiser trial acceptable across the class, since the ships remain useful station vessels even if they miss their ideal speed.
- 29:55QuestionWould Benjamin Tillman use the Tiger Cubs to justify building comparable ships at Charleston?AnswerQ&A
Possibly: Charleston construction and yard expansion would align closely with Tillman's local political incentives.
- 33:05QuestionWould Tiger Cubs be worthwhile only if they were markedly cheaper, fast enough to evade battlecruisers, and adequately protected?AnswerQ&A
Those qualities matter, but their decisive advantage is a peacetime station and global-presence role that does not require detaching a full battlecruiser.
- 34:42Why Blucher would be outclassedNotable Point
Against a 28-knot Tiger Cub, SMS Blucher's 25.4-knot speed and eight-gun broadside leave it at a severe tactical disadvantage.
- 38:10A test case for faster Queen ElizabethsNotable Point
Successful pre-war machinery trials could make faster Queen Elizabeth and R-class designs more plausible in this alternate history.
- 43:28Sending Tiger Cubs to CradockChapter
Commissioning in autumn 1914 makes Cradock's squadron the likeliest first destination for a pair of Tiger Cubs.
- 44:35Why commissioning followed extensive trialsNotable Point
British acceptance practice kept construction defects with the private yard until trials were complete and the Royal Navy commissioned the ship.
- 45:31Range control and two-group tactics at CoronelChapter
Two Tiger Cubs and Glasgow could form a fast group that outguns von Spee's armoured cruisers and prevents a historical German range advantage.
- 48:55Why the Courageous class may never be neededNotable Point
If the Tiger Cubs prove their value, they could undermine both the Baltic rationale and the resources used for the Courageous class.
- 53:21Dominion orders could enlarge the Tiger Cub forceNotable Point
Australian or Canadian orders could raise the class from twelve British ships to fourteen or sixteen and encourage a larger third batch.
- 54:50QuestionWithout Courageous and Glorious, would the spare 15-inch turrets produce prototype Hoods or another fast capital ship?AnswerQ&A
Four additional turrets would be available, making a third Renown or another rapid wartime capital-ship design plausible.
- 56:50Dogger Bank with a faster British forceChapter
At Dogger Bank, four to six 28-knot cruisers could give the British fast wing a coherent three-knot advantage over a German force constrained by Blucher.
- 1:00:18Command depth keeps the Dogger Bank pursuit movingNotable Point
A separate Tiger Cub squadron brings another senior admiral who can leave two cruisers to finish Blucher while the main British force continues the chase.
- 1:04:24A Coronel-scale German defeat at Dogger BankChapter
The combined British advantages in speed, heavy guns, light cruisers, and destroyers could destroy Hipper's entire force rather than only Blucher.
- 1:10:45QuestionWhich cruiser admiral might command the Tiger Cub squadron after Coronel?AnswerQ&A
Christopher Cradock is a strong candidate if he wins at Coronel, returns with the ships, and is promoted to lead their squadron.
- 1:12:52QuestionWould the first Tiger Cubs be available for the Battle of Heligoland Bight in August 1914?AnswerQ&A
No: their likely commissioning window is September to November 1914, after the battle.
- 1:13:29QuestionWould another vice admiral challenge Beatty's confused signals and blame Seymour afterward?AnswerQ&A
He might query the signals or issue his own orders, but period command culture would still hold Beatty responsible for his staff.
- 1:16:24Keeping Goeben contained in the MediterraneanChapter
A pair of Tiger Cubs with the Lord Nelsons could prevent Goeben from exploiting her speed against the Gallipoli force.
- 1:18:38QuestionWould Germany build one or two more Blucher-like cruisers in response?AnswerQ&A
Probably not: German money and yards were already committed, so each such cruiser would likely replace a battleship or battlecruiser.
- 1:19:41A global surface-raider hunting forceNotable Point
Tiger Cubs could serve with the Grand Fleet or hunt surface raiders worldwide without consuming scarce battlecruisers.
- 1:21:26Layered deterrence from patrol ships to carrier groupsNotable Point
A modern Royal Navy analogy explains why deterrence needs graduated levels of presence rather than a choice between light ships and a carrier group.
- 1:25:21QuestionWould the new Tiger Cubs cause the Royal Navy to retire its older armoured cruisers?AnswerQ&A
Not during the war, when old ships remain useful, but probably very soon after it ends.
- 1:27:04Modern fire control for Gallipoli bombardmentNotable Point
Tiger-era gunnery control would make 9.2-inch cruisers valuable for precise shore bombardment alongside the monitors at Gallipoli.
- 1:28:17QuestionWould surviving Tiger Cubs need major refits or replacement after such intensive wartime use?AnswerQ&A
Yes: their machinery would probably wear out well before their hulls and need replacement after the war.
- 1:30:26Jutland with a weaker German scouting forceChapter
A much harsher Dogger Bank leaves Germany with fewer battlecruisers at Jutland against a faster and deeper British force.
- 1:37:42Jutland might end before the battle fleets meetNotable Point
Destruction of the weakened First Scouting Group could send Scheer home before the Grand Fleet ever makes contact.
- 1:41:16Earlier purpose-built carriers and Tiger Cub escortsChapter
Without historical battlecruiser losses and conversions, Britain might order larger purpose-built carriers in 1916 and pair them with Tiger Cub escorts.
- 1:45:13Carrier strikes on WilhelmshavenChapter
A protected British carrier force could strike an unprepared High Seas Fleet in harbour and force Germany to defend, sortie, or retreat into the Baltic.
- 1:51:29Hawkins as a 9.2-inch successorChapter
A successful Tiger Cub lineage would make the Hawkins class a next-generation 9.2-inch station cruiser rather than the historical 7.5-inch design.
- 1:54:11QuestionCould the Hawkins class still be built for Atlantic trade protection without becoming a heavy cruiser?AnswerQ&A
Probably not in its historical form: existing light cruisers cover lower duties, while the Tiger Cub lineage supplies the higher-end role.
- 1:56:13A new treaty category for station cruisersChapter
Treaty negotiators would have to regulate ships between unlimited 6-inch light cruisers and capital ships.
- 2:00:28Britain's grandfathered cruiser advantageNotable Point
Britain enters the treaty with existing Tiger Cubs, while the United States and Japan must spend the 1920s building their own high-end cruisers.
- 2:02:50Why 9.2-inch guns remain the preferred batteryNotable Point
The British would likely retain 9.2-inch guns because a 10-inch weapon adds weight and sacrifices rate of fire without enough compensating value.
- 2:04:13An interwar race in carriers and station cruisersNotable Point
A treaty that recognizes large cruisers and more carriers would redirect interwar competition into those categories.
- 2:06:00Treaty tonnage produces faster capital shipsNotable Point
A 40,000-ton capital-ship ceiling and successful small-tube machinery could yield faster Nelsons, Renowns, and a formidable British battle line.
- 2:09:14QuestionCould Japan build these high-end cruisers as well as its capital ships with the infrastructure it had?AnswerQ&A
Yes: the treaty battleship holiday frees capacity for cruisers, and that work could improve the yards before capital-ship construction resumes.
- 2:10:09The cruiser-and-destroyer carrier screenNotable Point
Royal Navy carrier doctrine normally paired a carrier with a cruiser and destroyers; the Tiger Cubs make that screen more formidable.
- 2:12:55American battle-fleet politics still limit speedNotable Point
Congress viewed the US battle fleet primarily as a defensive instrument, weakening the case for larger, faster Colorados.
- 2:13:25Earlier carrier success keeps naval aviation in the fleetNotable Point
A larger and more successful carrier arm would be too central for the Royal Navy to surrender institutional control.
- 2:14:17Japanese convertible cruiser turretsNotable Point
Japan might design a triple 9.2-inch mounting whose barbette can later accept a twin 12-inch turret.
- 2:14:58French and Italian allowances reshape the treaty balanceNotable Point
Giving France and Italy their own high-end cruiser tonnage could make the treaty more equitable while forcing both navies into a new design competition.
- 2:17:09Higher treaty tonnage reshapes carriers and capital shipsChapter
A 600,000-ton capital-ship allowance and ten 30,000-ton carriers would alter the ships retained and built under the treaty.
- 2:21:31QuestionWhat would a light cruiser look like under this alternative treaty system?AnswerQ&A
Likely up to about 10,000 tons and 6.1-inch guns, with an 8,000-ton Royal Navy norm and room for much stronger all-gun designs at the ceiling.
- 2:23:19How a carrier escort formation was sizedNotable Point
A carrier normally operated with at least one cruiser and a destroyer division, with larger screens approaching a full flotilla.
- 2:26:13QuestionWould alternative treaty rules put 10-inch guns on carriers?AnswerQ&A
Probably not: a 6-inch limit is more plausible, and it could encourage an earlier dual-purpose 6-inch gun for carriers and cruisers.
- 2:28:52QuestionWould Nelson and Rodney use three triple 15-inch turrets and make about 26 knots in this treaty system?AnswerQ&A
Probably not: the extra displacement could produce roughly 28 knots while retaining their 16-inch guns.
- 2:31:04QuestionWould a later Scharnhorst class still use 11-inch guns, perhaps in four triple turrets?AnswerQ&A
Probably, because German infrastructure remains the binding constraint, though the ships would look less competitive against the new cruiser category.
- 2:32:09QuestionWhat would be the ideal gun calibre for these cruisers?AnswerQ&A
Nine-point-two inches: it is the heaviest gun that still retains a markedly better rate of fire than the 10- to 12-inch class.
- 2:34:49QuestionWith a 30,000-ton carrier allowance, would Yorktown become a modified Lexington or an entirely new design?AnswerQ&A
Yorktown's form remains open, but a special allowance could push the Lexington conversions toward 40,000 tons and change the baseline for the next purpose-built design.
- 2:37:04QuestionHow would 9.2-inch shells compare with 8-inch guns in a bombardment role?AnswerQ&A
They are larger, carry more explosive, and generally offer longer range in a comparable mounting.
- 2:38:11QuestionWhy is there such a large step in rate of fire between 9.2-inch and 10-inch guns?AnswerQ&A
The heavier 10-inch shell requires a substantially heavier handling and power-loading system, moving it into a slower firing-rate class.
- 2:39:42The Deutschland class loses its nicheNotable Point
Six 11-inch guns no longer make the Deutschlands exceptional when rival navies field numerous faster 9.2- and 10-inch cruisers.
- 2:42:05QuestionWould larger ships drive bigger torpedoes and submarines, or earlier explosive improvements?AnswerQ&A
Possibly, but it depends on whether Germany tries to match the cruiser force or shifts resources earlier toward submarines as its battle fleet loses relevance.
- 2:43:239.2-inch firepower versus 6-inch cruisersNotable Point
The 9.2-inch gun is presented as a historically grounded sweet spot whose effective fire can rival much larger 6-inch cruiser batteries.
- 2:49:51Shell weight and the ammunition-handling thresholdNotable Point
Approximate shell weights place the 9.2-inch round below a handling threshold that helps preserve its higher rate of fire.
- 2:53:20QuestionHow would a larger carrier-conversion allowance affect ships such as Kaga?AnswerQ&A
It could reveal earlier that air groups near one hundred aircraft face a human and operational management ceiling, encouraging different carrier and aircraft choices.
- 2:58:24QuestionWould Britain build a York-class equivalent with three triple 9.2-inch turrets?AnswerQ&A
Probably not: the Royal Navy could keep the older Tiger Cub lineage in service and replace it directly when needed, reducing the need for a cheaper equivalent.
- 3:00:41QuestionWhat armour and torpedo protection could these alternative cruisers carry?AnswerQ&A
One 12,500-ton sketch carries a 7-inch belt, 4.5-inch deck, internal protective deck, and twin-hull anti-flooding; an 18,000-ton ship could add more guns and protection.