Video
Patreon 87: Norway Stands! WWII if Norway repels the German invasion...
Study Patreon 87: Norway Stands! WWII if Norway repels the German invasion..., a Dr. Alex Clarke video from 19 Oct 2023, with 61 time notes. Topics include Alternate History, Battle of the Atlantic, Mediterranean War.
Time notes
- 16:39Two ways Norway can repel the invasionChapter
The starting point distinguishes a failed German landing from a repulsed landing, because Norwegian neutrality or active Allied participation follows from that choice.
- 18:35Testing what victory in Norway does not changeNotable Point
Tabletop, computer, and oral tests all leave France's military and political weaknesses intact even after a German disaster in Norway.
- 22:24A pro-British neutral Scandinavia and Swedish oreChapter
A neutral Norway keeps Narvik open to Britain and puts Sweden in a stronger position to sell ore away from Germany.
- 29:56Denying Norway's bases to German air and sea powerChapter
Without Norwegian airfields, fjords, and submarine bases, Germany faces a far more dangerous route into the Atlantic and loses leverage over Arctic convoys.
- 35:45Why Swedish ore matters more than a lost cargo routeNotable Point
High-purity Swedish ore supports German steelmaking; losing it creates both a quantity shortage and an industrial conversion problem.
- 38:55Norwegian aluminium and wider Scandinavian importsNotable Point
Norway's hydro-powered aluminium industry and other Scandinavian materials become another cumulative advantage for Britain and loss for Germany.
- 42:52QuestionCould Britain afford to buy enough Scandinavian ore and aluminium to deny them to Germany?AnswerQ&A
Yes; Britain could combine its own resources with Dominion support and sympathetic American finance because denying Germany the material is strategically valuable.
- 43:51QuestionCould Britain buy merchant ships from neutral Sweden?AnswerQ&A
Possibly, but getting purchased ships out of the Baltic would be difficult; chartering neutral Swedish vessels for Narvik traffic is more plausible.
- 44:27QuestionWould access to more Norwegian aluminium cause Britain to build the Mosquito from metal?AnswerQ&A
No; the Mosquito's construction drew on Britain's wider industrial base, although extra aluminium could support other programs.
- 44:51Britain's financial strain was cumulativeNotable Point
Britain's later weakness accumulated through two world wars, the Depression, and postwar policy rather than beginning with one wartime purchase or crisis.
- 45:29QuestionWould a neutral Norway significantly affect Italy?AnswerQ&A
Not by itself; the major Italian consequences follow if Germany invades, loses badly, and Norway becomes an Allied operating base.
- 49:18A small timing shift that catches the invasion fleetChapter
Moving Royal Navy movements by hours rather than days can bring a powerful Home Fleet force across the German troop convoys for Bergen, Trondheim, and Narvik.
- 57:01How an Allied Norway drives the landing backChapter
With German sea power shattered and no northern foothold, Norwegian, British, and French forces can concentrate on ejecting the southern landings.
- 1:00:41QuestionWould Germany start building replacement capital ships after the Norwegian losses?AnswerQ&A
No; Germany was already straining to complete Tirpitz, and losing Swedish ore and Norwegian aluminium makes replacement construction unrealistic.
- 1:01:08QuestionWas a higher-ranking commander available for the Allied force in Norway?AnswerQ&A
No suitable higher-ranking major general was available, and the chosen rank helped keep the operation visibly Norwegian-led.
- 1:01:42QuestionDid Britain import bauxite or refined aluminium during the war?AnswerQ&A
Both, but the larger share was refined aluminium supplied through Canada.
- 1:03:20Could a defeat in Norway end Germany's surface-fleet ambitions?Notable Point
The loss of ships, trained officers, and Scandinavian material supplies could make Bismarck- and Tirpitz-era surface strategy far less viable.
- 1:05:11QuestionWould a catastrophic defeat in Norway destabilise Hitler's rule?AnswerQ&A
Probably not; Hitler could blame the navy, but the defeat might end Germany's surface-fleet program.
- 1:08:38Scandinavian materials keep British capital ships movingNotable Point
Extra ore and aluminium give Britain a reason to continue or accelerate battleship construction that wartime priorities historically slowed.
- 1:09:17Scandinavia becomes an Allied forward theatreChapter
An Allied Norway supports aircraft, torpedo boats, submarines, and potentially commando raids against the Danish straits and Baltic approaches.
- 1:10:05QuestionWould Churchill still become prime minister if Norway successfully resisted Germany?AnswerQ&A
Probably yes; France still falls and Chamberlain remains a spent force, although Churchill's timing or immediate route to office may change.
- 1:10:35QuestionWould Norwegian and Swedish resources be sold to Japan in this scenario?AnswerQ&A
Probably not in meaningful quantities; Britain could outbid Japan, and an Allied Norway would help direct Swedish ore away from Germany and Japan.
- 1:11:36QuestionCould Norway take over aircraft orders placed by France?AnswerQ&A
Likely yes; diverted orders and other purchases could give Norway Wildcats, although Britain would then have fewer for its carriers.
- 1:12:19Finland gains a Scandinavian third wayNotable Point
A secure Allied or armed-neutral Scandinavia gives Finland an alternative to choosing between Germany and the Soviet Union.
- 1:13:03Keeping Scandinavian supply chains in serviceNotable Point
Established Scandinavian material flows reduce the delays involved in adapting British factories to unfamiliar sources and ore qualities.
- 1:17:34Why Moscow may initially stay out of ScandinaviaNotable Point
Recent fighting against Japan and Finland gives the Soviet Union reasons not to open another northern commitment immediately.
- 1:19:19Using Norway to threaten Ploiești oilNotable Point
Forward air logistics in Norway could make Romanian oil a more accessible and less heavily defended target than from Britain.
- 1:27:03QuestionCould RAF bombers actually navigate from Norway to Ploiești in 1940-42?AnswerQ&A
It would be difficult, but the RAF could attempt it and improve its navigation through the effort.
- 1:27:56The North Sea as a barrier against U-boatsChapter
Aircraft shuttling between Britain and Norway, minefields, escorts, and patrols turn the North Sea into a dense anti-submarine zone.
- 1:28:25QuestionWould Sweden join the Allies or be vulnerable to a German invasion after Norway stands?AnswerQ&A
Sweden could be drawn closer to the Allies, but a German invasion would be an unattractive and costly option against a mobilised Swedish defence.
- 1:34:30QuestionCould British commandos raid northern Germany and Poland from Norway?AnswerQ&A
Yes; submarine-supported Special Boat Service operations could shift from the Mediterranean to the Baltic approaches.
- 1:38:38QuestionWould Germany still attack the Soviet Union when Norway constrains its logistics?AnswerQ&A
Possibly, because Nazi leadership may still overreach, but the loss of oil, ore, and naval freedom makes a southern diversion or delayed campaign more plausible.
- 1:40:03QuestionHow could the Kriegsmarine train in the Baltic if Britain operated from Norway?AnswerQ&A
It probably could not train there safely; the Baltic would become contested by British aircraft, submarines, and coastal forces.
- 1:40:53A safer northern Britain and delayed German replacement powerChapter
Denying Norway to the Luftwaffe protects northern industry and compounds a German materials shortage that mainly bites in later replacement production.
- 1:47:10QuestionWhat would the Norwegian Navy build or buy after repelling Germany?AnswerQ&A
Norway would prioritize corvettes, escort destroyers, and fast coastal craft while relying on surviving coastal-defence ships for heavier local firepower.
- 1:49:50QuestionWas Germany receiving refined metal from Norway and Sweden, or only ore and low-grade steel?AnswerQ&A
Germany received good refined material as well as ore from Norway and Sweden.
- 1:50:18QuestionCould Norway's surviving coastal-defence ships support an Allied amphibious operation later in the war?AnswerQ&A
Yes; Norway could serve as the base for a landing in Denmark, a shorter route toward Germany than an assault from Britain to France.
- 1:52:20The Atlantic convoy war without Norwegian U-boat basesChapter
German submarines can still attempt to reach France, but the Channel and North Sea gauntlets shrink their Atlantic campaign and may prevent both U-boat Happy Times.
- 2:00:40QuestionCould Germany use milk-cow submarines and surface supply ships to sustain distant U-boat patrols?AnswerQ&A
Not reliably; the supply vessels face the same barrier, so attack boats must preserve enough fuel and stores to return without them.
- 2:02:17Glorious turns Taranto into a larger carrier strikeChapter
If HMS Glorious survives Norway, three British carriers can bring far more Swordfish to Taranto and cripple Italian sea power more decisively.
- 2:06:57Why Crete may remain an Allied baseNotable Point
Crippling the Italian battle fleet removes the amphibious reinforcement treated as decisive after the airborne assault on Crete.
- 2:10:08North Africa when Italian sea power cannot protect supply linesChapter
With the Italian battle fleet damaged, British sea and air power can isolate coastal supply routes and may prevent a meaningful Afrika Korps intervention.
- 2:12:16QuestionWould the Battle of Cape Matapan still happen after the expanded Taranto strike?AnswerQ&A
Probably not in its historical form; the Italian fleet would be repairing severe damage while Britain watched and concentrated superior forces.
- 2:17:34QuestionWould Hood and Repulse be modernised if Norway reduced the pressure on the Home Fleet?AnswerQ&A
Possibly; the safer North Sea could free one or both ships for reconstruction, although the outcome remains uncertain.
- 2:18:00QuestionWhy would Italy keep its fleet at Taranto if Britain had more carriers in the Mediterranean?AnswerQ&A
Italy believed the harbour was too shallow for a torpedo attack and expected air-force warning of any British approach.
- 2:19:18Why defeat could topple MussoliniNotable Point
Defeat in North Africa could topple Mussolini because Fascist Italy retains a monarch and visible political opposition that Nazi Germany does not.
- 2:20:51Scapa Flow and the cost of deferred base defenceNotable Point
The 1939 attack on Scapa Flow illustrates how confidence in inherited defences can delay repairs until a vulnerability produces both loss and emergency construction.
- 2:24:23A stronger Far East fleet changes Japan's calculusChapter
Forces freed from Norway and the Mediterranean could give Britain a carrier-heavy Far East fleet able to combine with American carriers after Pearl Harbor.
- 2:24:58Somerville commands a fleet rather than a detachmentNotable Point
A four-carrier Far East deployment requires an experienced fleet commander, making Somerville or Cunningham more plausible than the historical small-force command arrangement.
- 2:36:17QuestionWould the Japanese Indian Ocean raid still take place against this stronger Eastern Fleet?AnswerQ&A
No; the historical raiding force would be outmatched, so Japan would have to change its sequence and risk the Allied fleets joining together.
- 2:40:20Why Barbarossa becomes harder to launchNotable Point
Loss of Scandinavian inputs, vulnerable Romanian oil, and competing European crises could delay or constrain Barbarossa rather than simply cancel it.
- 2:44:52QuestionHow likely is Hitler to attack the Soviet Union earlier without first resolving the other fronts?AnswerQ&A
Very unlikely; the railways, roads, and logistical preparation for Barbarossa could not be completed simply by choosing an earlier date.
- 2:45:54QuestionWhat would Norway's reaction be if Britain invaded first?AnswerQ&A
Britain would face much the same political danger as Germany, so a pre-emptive invasion is not a safe route to the scenario.
- 2:46:50An earlier end to the war - and its wider consequencesChapter
The closing discussion follows a shorter war into Italian regime change, British finances, German commerce, and the uncertain development of atomic weapons.
- 2:51:48Soviet logistics and the direction of postwar expansionChapter
Without the historical war sequence and Allied supplies, Soviet forces face a one-direction logistical choice between Europe and the Far East.
- 2:54:32QuestionHow would Australia and the other Dominions be drawn into the war?AnswerQ&A
They were part of the Empire but still had a choice; they are expected to join as they did historically, including South Africa.
- 2:56:45QuestionHow would this scenario affect Britain's economic position compared with the historical timeline?AnswerQ&A
A shorter war and fewer shipping losses would leave Britain with more of its commercial strength and a smaller financial burden.
- 2:57:53QuestionWhat stops Germany using auxiliary raiders instead of warships?AnswerQ&A
They must still cross the same watched barriers, and suspicious merchant-ship behaviour is more likely to be investigated.
- 2:58:26QuestionWould HMS Edinburgh still be sunk while carrying Soviet gold?AnswerQ&A
Its fate is uncertain, but without Barbarossa it may carry no Soviet gold, and safer Arctic convoys make the historical loss less likely.
- 2:58:54QuestionIf the war ends much earlier, how would that affect the development of atomic weapons?AnswerQ&A
Nuclear weapons may still emerge, but the Manhattan Project's particular collaboration and timing become much less certain.
- 3:00:18Mining the Kiel Canal from Norwegian basesNotable Point
Norway gives British aircraft a short, easy-to-navigate route for repeated mine-laying against Germany's Baltic-North Sea maritime link.