Video
Patreon 103: The Nightmare returns - 4 WWI Town class are discovered by the Royal Navy in 1938
Study Patreon 103: The Nightmare returns - 4 WWI Town class are discovered by the Royal Navy in 1938, a Dr. Alex Clarke video from 9 May 2024, with 67 time notes. Topics include Alternate History, Convoy Warfare, Fleet…
Time notes
- 2:27Ottoman collapse and the Russian Civil WarNotable Point
One interpretation treats Ottoman collapse as the outcome of long decline once Russia no longer supplied a reason to preserve the empire.
- 4:03The Commonwealth as an unusual end to empireNotable Point
A favorable appraisal of the Commonwealth focuses on voluntary membership and continuing sporting, cultural, and economic ties.
- 18:19Four Town-class survivors at PembrokeChapter
The counterfactual starts by choosing Chatham, Southampton, Birmingham, and Lowestoft as four old Town-class cruisers plausibly left together at Pembroke.
- 29:22Two Town classes with different design ancestryNotable Point
The 1910 Towns lead toward Atlantic cruisers, Hawkins, and the County class, while the 1930s Towns follow a different cruiser lineage.
- 32:38Why the Royal Navy avoided a wartime fuel crisisNotable Point
Decades of prewar stockpiling gave the Royal Navy a fuel cushion that its German and Italian opponents lacked, even when Britain faced shortages elsewhere.
- 35:04QuestionDid the claim of only six weeks of fuel remaining in May 1943 refer to fuels other than ship fuel?AnswerQ&A
Yes. It referred to aviation fuel and other supplies, while the Royal Navy retained its separate ship-fuel stocks.
- 36:36The Chatham and Birmingham hulls before conversionNotable Point
Similar hull sizes, four shafts, and large six-inch magazines give the two subclasses a common starting point for conversion.
- 41:30Hull proportions and four shaftsNotable Point
The broader proportions and four-shaft arrangement make the old Town hulls candidates for a faster, more maneuverable escort.
- 43:53Destroyer-armed Atlantic cruiser refitChapter
The proposed rebuild swaps the old six-inch battery for 4.7-inch destroyer guns, four-inch high-angle guns, pom-poms, torpedoes, new boilers, and an Atlantic bow.
- 48:53Four-inch AA cruisers on solitary convoy dutyNotable Point
The C-class AA conversion is questioned when those cruisers must protect distant convoys against surface attack.
- 50:11QuestionWhy not use 4.5-inch guns for the rebuilt Town-class cruisers?AnswerQ&A
The available 4.5-inch mountings penetrate the deck and are already needed for carriers and capital-ship refits. Abundant destroyer 4.7-inch guns avoid those competing demands.
- 53:04QuestionWould 5.25-inch guns fit the rebuilt Town-class cruisers?AnswerQ&A
Probably not in the proposed conversion, because their deck-penetrating mountings would require changes to a hull not designed for them.
- 54:03Making the 4.7-inch gun more dual-purposeNotable Point
Raising the 4.7-inch gun within a modified mounting could give the rebuilt cruiser about 82 degrees of elevation for high-angle fire.
- 55:27Arranging the rebuilt Town's guns and funnelsNotable Point
Two forward twin 4.7-inch mounts, three aft mounts, and four-inch guns between the funnels form the proposed cruiser battery.
- 57:32Reusing the six-inch ammunition magazinesNotable Point
Smaller replacement ammunition could fit the old magazines without rebuilding the ship's internal ammunition spaces.
- 59:35QuestionHow would the replacement armament affect the ships' topweight?AnswerQ&A
The proposed lighter installations are expected to fit the weight allowance released by removing the old six-inch guns.
- 1:01:01QuestionCould the old cruiser take a twin eight-inch turret?AnswerQ&A
No. Its size and deck penetration would make it an excessive installation for a ship of this displacement.
- 1:02:32QuestionWould the rebuilt Town-class cruisers receive radar and hydrophones?AnswerQ&A
They could accept both. The initial radar suggestion follows C-class fittings, with Type 280 considered for 1940.
- 1:03:59Scaling destroyer machinery for the old cruiserNotable Point
Tribal and L/M-class machinery provides the comparison for a proposed four-boiler, 64,000-shaft-horsepower plant.
- 1:05:33Henderson's large-destroyer doctrineNotable Point
Henderson's general-purpose cruiser-destroyer idea provides the rationale for combining an old cruiser hull with destroyer armament.
- 1:05:33Pembroke facilities and the timing of machinery ordersNotable Point
Existing dockyard facilities and destroyer machinery production support the proposed 1938 start.
- 1:08:38QuestionIf the 4.7-inch guns become dual-purpose, why keep the twin four-inch mounts?AnswerQ&A
The four-inch guns provide proven high-angle fire while the modified 4.7-inch mount is still unproven, and a mixed main and secondary battery fits contemporary cruiser practice.
- 1:11:06QuestionCould the four-inch guns be removed at the first refit once the dual-purpose 4.7-inch mounting proved itself?AnswerQ&A
Yes. The same proven modification could also let Tribal, L, and M-class destroyers retain 4.7-inch guns in positions otherwise fitted with four-inch weapons.
- 1:13:16QuestionHow quickly could the rebuilt cruisers be commissioned?AnswerQ&A
The estimate is twelve to eighteen months. A January 1938 discovery and March start could put all four in service by September 1939.
- 1:13:38An early game test of the rebuilt TownNotable Point
A 32-knot game variant defeats four German destroyers, with its armament and veteran crew forming part of the result.
- 1:16:06QuestionIf increasing the gun's elevation was straightforward, why was it not done in time?AnswerQ&A
Working through the modification and testing it was expected to take about twelve months. Existing four-inch guns could start being fitted within days or weeks.
- 1:17:39QuestionWould these ships use cruiser crews or progressive destroyer crews?AnswerQ&A
Use a mixture of cruiser and destroyer personnel, including reservists with destroyer experience.
- 1:20:42Convoy escort and flotilla leader employmentChapter
The converted Towns could lead convoys or Tribal flotillas, but four ships would have to cover competing demands.
- 1:25:11Scharnhorst and Gneisenau face a denser patrolNotable Point
Extra rebuilt cruisers could thicken the Northern Patrol and make the Rawalpindi encounter more dangerous for Scharnhorst and Gneisenau.
- 1:27:56How two more supporting cruisers shorten patrol responseNotable Point
Increasing the supporting cruiser deployment from roughly three to five makes reinforcement and sustained contact more likely.
- 1:35:59QuestionWas Rawalpindi's crew connected with Iron Duke's crew?AnswerQ&A
That crew connection is left unresolved. Captain Edward Kennedy is identified, with a recollection of his determination to fight both German ships.
- 1:37:24Testing the conversion's air defence in NorwayChapter
Success under Norwegian air attack could demonstrate the 4.7-inch modification and encourage its spread to destroyers.
- 1:38:40Prize money for captured German warshipsNotable Point
Royal Navy prize rules could still reward individual crews if captured enemy warships were brought into a British port.
- 1:41:11Assigning one converted Town to Mediterranean carriersNotable Point
One of the four ships could become a dedicated AA escort for Illustrious, Eagle, or another Mediterranean carrier.
- 1:44:46QuestionCould the old Town-class hull support the proposed increase in power?AnswerQ&A
The proposal relies on a lengthened, reshaped bow and the unusually strong construction attributed to the old Town hulls.
- 1:46:10QuestionWould the shafts be replaced to handle the increased shaft horsepower?AnswerQ&A
Yes. The design assumes four shafts, allowing the new output to be distributed more widely than on the two-shaft comparisons.
- 1:47:02QuestionWould the rebuilt Town-class cruisers be sent to the South Atlantic against Admiral Graf Spee?AnswerQ&A
Probably not. Their better use would be reinforcing the Northern Patrol and Norway convoys, where their speed, anti-aircraft fire, and destroyer-killing battery could support merchant cruisers and flotillas.
- 1:52:26Type 79 radar as an early-warning optionNotable Point
An early-warning Type 79 set could be included in a conversion begun in 1938, giving the rebuilt cruisers radar before their proposed 1940 employment.
- 1:54:00QuestionWith these dual-purpose 4.7-inch mounts available, might the historically four-inch-armed Didos receive them instead?AnswerQ&A
They might, although this remains a suggestion without a detailed conversion proposal.
- 1:54:26QuestionWould the converted cruisers carry a floatplane?AnswerQ&A
Probably not. Their proposed modern forward superstructure could accommodate radar and possibly fighter-direction features.
- 1:57:30Designing a purpose-built cruiser-destroyer successorChapter
A game design exercise explores how range, protection, and destroyer-level speed push a proposed small flotilla cruiser beyond its initial displacement target.
- 2:11:00Triple mounts and inconsistent turret terminologyNotable Point
The proposed triple 4.5-inch fit leads to a warning that twin, triple, and similar mounting labels do not carry consistent technical meanings across navies.
- 2:15:47Building a Type 1936A opponent for the simulationChapter
A Type 1936A-style opponent combines five 5.9-inch guns with torpedoes, while game constraints introduce departures from the historical destroyer.
- 2:22:18QuestionHow would other navies change their ship designs after seeing the rebuilt Town-class cruisers?AnswerQ&A
Probably very little: only four ships are being modified, and other navies have limited scope to respond.
- 2:26:52Why the first cruiser-destroyer simulation failsChapter
The first game engagement defeats the proposed British cruisers despite their numerical gun advantage, prompting scrutiny of the design and simulation assumptions.
- 2:37:43Revising the cruiser around six twin 4.7-inch mountsNotable Point
The revised game design trades fourteen 4.5-inch guns for twelve 4.7-inch guns in twin mounts while exploring a small-cruiser route to the destroyer-leader role.
- 2:49:51An unrealistically stable German destroyer modelNotable Point
The second run suggests that the German model has acquired excessive stability, allowing its heavy guns to perform better than the historical platform could support.
- 2:53:06QuestionHow do navies war-game ships or formations that have not yet been designed?AnswerQ&A
Assign provisional performance parameters, run the game, and revise them in light of the result. American carrier work used expected Langley capabilities as a baseline.
- 2:54:32QuestionWould a six-inch gun work on a Tribal-class destroyer hull?AnswerQ&A
No. The Royal Navy examined heavier fits but judged the Tribal hull insufficiently stable for accurate six-inch fire.
- 2:56:38Changed assumptions reverse the game resultNotable Point
The altered simulation favours the British cruisers, while the earlier result raises a separate German design counterfactual that still requires more testing.
- 3:05:15QuestionWhy did the Royal Fleet Auxiliary build so few dedicated colliers before the First World War?AnswerQ&A
Most coal moved from base to base in hired merchant ships and was loaded in harbor; dedicated auxiliaries were chiefly needed for forward or high-risk supply.
- 3:06:15QuestionCould the converted cruisers escort Force Z?AnswerQ&A
Yes, one or two could keep up with its fast capital ships and add escort numbers and anti-aircraft firepower. Their broader effect depends on how they are used.
- 3:19:49QuestionHow would a squadron of the triple-4.7-inch cruisers fare in the Guadalcanal battles?AnswerQ&A
They could put a large volume of shells onto destroyers and light cruisers, but their shorter gun range would make Japanese heavy cruisers a serious problem.
- 3:20:14QuestionCould the JMSDF buy both destroyer groups in the proposal, including two Atago-class DDGs, instead of choosing between them?AnswerQ&A
Yes, if it were willing to spend the money on both purchases.
- 3:20:27QuestionIf Japan made combined steam-and-gas turbo-electric propulsion work, would it become standard on JMSDF ships after 2000?AnswerQ&A
Later ships would probably use gas-turbine turbo-electric propulsion instead, chiefly because gas turbines offer much greater power.
- 3:21:42QuestionWhich is the greater threat to the United States Navy, the G3 or the N3?AnswerQ&A
The G3. N3 and the South Dakota class would fight as opposing slow battle lines, while G3 could overmatch the Lexington class and operate against trade with other fast British capital ships.
- 3:22:42QuestionWas G3's belt only seven inches thick, or was that a deck-armor figure?AnswerQ&A
The cited book gives a 12-14-inch belt and a 3-8-inch deck, with thickness varying by location. Seven inches does not appear as the belt figure.
- 3:23:38Disputed accounts of G3's intended gunsNotable Point
Conflicting descriptions identify G3's planned armament as either 16.5-inch weapons or guns associated with the later Nelson class.
- 3:29:14Limits of publicly declared naval specificationsNotable Point
Public armor and weapon figures can be incomplete, leaving a need to distinguish declared specifications from the intended design.
- 3:30:25QuestionWould three twin 18-inch turrets be too little armament for a battle design?AnswerQ&A
No. Six 18-inch guns would exceed the broadside weight of eight 15-inch or ten 13.5-inch guns, while eight 18-inch guns would demand a larger hull.
- 3:33:47QuestionWith a blank check in 1890, how could Spain rebuild its navy for a possible war in 1897?AnswerQ&A
Order Centurion-class battleships and Edgar-class cruisers immediately, add a large torpedo-boat force, and use British yards, logistics, and training while expanding Spanish construction where possible.
- 3:42:08QuestionCould Spain simply keep iterating the Furor class and its derivatives?AnswerQ&A
Yes, but the program must begin earlier than Furor's historical 1896 start and continuously replace front-line boats while moving older generations into reserve.
- 3:46:16QuestionIf one of the old Town-class ships had only two shafts, would that undermine the conversion?AnswerQ&A
It would matter, but the apparent discrepancy may come from inconsistent counting. The scenario retains the four-shaft arrangement found in the cited book sources.
- 3:49:12How old military-unit lineages are comparedNotable Point
Claims about the oldest serving formations depend on whether continuity is traced through a present regiment, a ceremonial body, or inherited militia lineage.
- 3:51:36QuestionWould the United States still attempt the Spanish-American War against the much stronger fleet proposed here?AnswerQ&A
Perhaps not. The proposed increase in Spanish naval strength could alter the decision to fight.
- 3:51:49QuestionWould a compact cruiser concept work for Spain as a relatively minor naval power?AnswerQ&A
Spain's colonial commitments make a narrowly conceived minor-power fleet a poor fit. A compact cruiser of roughly 6,000-6,500 tons is technically plausible if twin six-inch turrets are available around 1914.
- 3:52:53G3 turret rings and competing gun interpretationsNotable Point
A disagreement with D. K. Brown turns on whether turret-ring dimensions and the timing of gun development establish G3's intended armament.