Video
Patreon 101: If Lord Fisher died in Jan 1914, how does Prince Louis of Battenberg perform as 1SL?
Study Patreon 101: If Lord Fisher died in Jan 1914, how does Prince Louis of Battenberg perform as 1SL?, a Dr. Alex Clarke video from 12 Apr 2024, with 70 time notes. Topics include Alternate History, First Sea Lord…
Time notes
- 1:25Battenberg's qualifications for First Sea LordChapter
Forty-four years of naval service and a record of senior command made Battenberg an experienced Admiralty leader.
- 2:31Royal birth and the obstacles to Battenberg's promotionNotable Point
Royal connections brought extra scrutiny, while Battenberg's German name made promotion a recurring political test.
- 7:46Why Battenberg remains the practical First Sea LordNotable Point
Jellicoe was needed with the Grand Fleet, while Beresford's factional record left Battenberg as the practical choice.
- 9:55Why Furious worked better as a carrier conversionNotable Point
Furious's two-gun design had poor targeting prospects, while conversion to an aircraft carrier offered a useful role.
- 10:55Battenberg's dynastic family networkNotable Point
Battenberg's marriage linked him to Queen Victoria's family, while his relatives' fate in Russia brought difficult family obligations.
- 19:04Why Battenberg recorded agreements after arguing in privateNotable Point
Battenberg's written approvals followed private debate, so the paperwork alone can conceal how he influenced decisions.
- 21:57QuestionHow did Battenberg become First Sea Lord in Britain despite having a German name?AnswerQ&A
By being very good at his job despite repeated parliamentary opposition to his promotion.
- 25:42Could Battenberg outlast the Admiralty factions?Notable Point
Fisher's continued access to Churchill and the Fisher-Beresford feud explain why Battenberg became vulnerable; Fisher's death removes a key pressure point.
- 26:11QuestionWas there similar resistance to French names in England after the Huguenots arrived following 1685?AnswerQ&A
Not really.
- 33:43Battenberg's record in training and readinessNotable Point
Battenberg's support for technical education and better fleet training gave him a substantial record in naval readiness.
- 35:02The parliamentary challenge to Battenberg's Dreadnought appointmentNotable Point
Requests from commanding officers and the appointments of junior contemporaries answered objections to Battenberg's foreign birth.
- 36:52Kept available for service, but given no commandNotable Point
The promise of a possible wartime recall kept Battenberg from outside employment, yet the Navy gave him no command and left him under growing financial strain.
- 45:18Staff losses and factional disputes weakened Battenberg's AdmiraltyNotable Point
Battenberg underestimated the loss of capable staff while factional attacks distracted him from supervising wartime administration.
- 47:01Fleet concentration and a possible deterrent cruiseNotable Point
A public cruise could display readiness and reassure France, while a deployment off Germany risked provoking the war.
- 51:45A stronger cruiser force before CoronelNotable Point
The Coronel counterfactual turns on staff attention: reinforce Cradock rather than disperse scarce cruisers across distant contingencies.
- 57:44QuestionWas Denmark Strait an even two-against-two action, with the supporting British cruisers unable to affect the fight?AnswerQ&A
That description is rejected because the opposing pairs had unequal fighting power, while the British heavy cruisers are treated as support withheld by command orders.
- 58:31Covering both of Goeben's Mediterranean escape routesNotable Point
Containing Goeben required enough battlecruisers to cover the Atlantic route and the possible escape toward the Black Sea.
- 59:45QuestionWould stationing battlecruisers throughout the Empire let Britain destroy German cruisers quickly and with fewer losses?AnswerQ&A
Their deployment should follow the actual German threat, with HMAS Australia covering the East Asian squadron and ordinary cruisers handling less demanding stations.
- 1:05:04Completing Renown and Repulse as Revenge-class battleshipsChapter
Battenberg's existing construction programme points toward completed Revenge-class battleships and an experimental fast Agincourt rather than Fisher's Renown and Repulse battlecruisers.
- 1:07:13QuestionCould Battenberg invite the United States to let von Spee pass through the Panama Canal so the Royal Navy could intercept him?AnswerQ&A
No. American permission under those conditions would compromise US neutrality, so Battenberg would not propose it.
- 1:10:03QuestionWas a fast battleship still five to ten years away in 1914 because Britain lacked the infrastructure and doctrine?AnswerQ&A
The counterargument is that Britain already had the dockyards, oil support, and fast-capital-ship doctrine, while small-tube boilers offered a route toward 28 knots.
- 1:13:30Reconstructing Agincourt's design and possible completionNotable Point
A speculative six-gun, 28-knot Agincourt could enter service in late 1915 or early 1916 if its assumed construction timetable held.
- 1:18:49Agincourt's armour judged by 1914 standardsNotable Point
Possible improvements to deck and belt protection remain modest by later fast-battleship standards.
- 1:21:59QuestionWhat did Prince Louis of Battenberg think about aircraft carriers?AnswerQ&A
He supported early seaplane carriers and would probably continue carrier development as wartime experience clarified their value.
- 1:23:40The circumstantial case for a different AgincourtNotable Point
Cancellation language, boiler-development timing, and the Furious guns support a hypothesis about Agincourt's intended design.
- 1:29:04Earlier Flower sloops and monitors for FlandersNotable Point
Intelligence-led procurement might bring Flower-class sloops forward and develop informal bombardment ideas into monitors.
- 1:29:43Jutland reinforces an 18-inch fast-battleship Admiral classNotable Point
Once Agincourt establishes the design path, wartime battlecruiser losses make the four Admiral-class ships more likely to become protected 18-inch fast battleships.
- 1:31:55QuestionWould Battenberg stop with one fast Agincourt, or order more ships on the same model?AnswerQ&A
He would probably continue the idea in the Admiral class, building 18-inch-gunned fast battleships rather than new battlecruisers.
- 1:35:20How German coastal raids could change Battenberg's public identityNotable Point
German raids on the British coast would reinforce the demand for fast reaction forces while increasing political pressure on Battenberg to adopt the Mountbatten name earlier.
- 1:37:49QuestionCould Royal Navy submarines be used to ambush German raiding forces?AnswerQ&A
Yes in principle, and that was planned, but their low submerged speed and surface vulnerability made timely interception difficult.
- 1:38:15HMS Swift, larger destroyers, and earlier Flower-class sloopsChapter
Large Swift-style leaders could screen fast battleships, while smaller destroyers and earlier Flower-class sloops supplied numbers.
- 1:45:15How Battenberg turned royal correspondence into naval intelligenceNotable Point
Battenberg used relatives in European royal houses as informal sources on foreign destroyers, cruisers, and naval construction.
- 1:47:05When a wave stopped a motor torpedo boat leaving harbourNotable Point
A reported harbour accident gives a concrete example of the weather limits on small torpedo craft.
- 1:48:05Gallipoli as a combined naval and land operationNotable Point
If Gallipoli still went ahead, Battenberg's Army relationships and interest in mine countermeasures could support a coordinated assault.
- 1:53:28The unverified story of the Kaiser supplying naval informationNotable Point
A possibly apocryphal story has Wilhelm II personally sending Battenberg details of German warships.
- 1:55:58How a successful Gallipoli could change Churchill's political careerNotable Point
Success removes Churchill's resignation and could make him Lloyd George's rival if Asquith's government still fell.
- 1:59:50QuestionWould Battenberg change wartime aircraft procurement?AnswerQ&A
He would probably continue aviation projects begun during his tenure, while faster construction remains uncertain.
- 2:01:16Dogger Bank without the signal that concentrated on BlucherNotable Point
A different battlecruiser commander could leave damaged Blucher behind, continue the pursuit, and possibly sink Seydlitz with consequences for Hipper and later German damage control.
- 2:11:19QuestionIf Sturdee was a capable officer, why did he make such an odd deployment against von Spee?AnswerQ&A
He likely over-analyzed the possible escape routes and created fallback lines instead of concentrating enough force with Cradock to stop von Spee immediately.
- 2:14:44QuestionCould one damaged British ship finish Blucher while the others pursued?AnswerQ&A
Yes. The proposed solution leaves the damaged flagship Lion with Blucher and sends the faster ships after the rest of the German force.
- 2:15:44QuestionWould the fast battleships serve as overseas presence ships?AnswerQ&A
Yes. They would be presence ships and would have admiral's quarters.
- 2:15:58Completing the Admiral class without repeated redesignNotable Point
Starting with fast battleships could avoid redesign delays and leave five large 18-inch-gunned ships in service before naval treaty negotiations.
- 2:17:00Jutland with tighter information and command linksChapter
The Jutland branch rests on whether a better-informed Admiralty keeps the battlecruisers, fast battleships, Harwich Force, and Grand Fleet working to one plan.
- 2:22:23QuestionWhy would Jellicoe take the speculative fast Agincourt as his flagship rather than assign it to the battlecruisers?AnswerQ&A
Its speed and Jellicoe's involvement in the design make it a natural fleet flagship, while its one-off characteristics argue against placing it in a homogeneous battle squadron.
- 2:23:51QuestionWould Battenberg send the Royal Navy to raid the German coast?AnswerQ&A
Probably not. Mines and submarines made a surface raid needlessly dangerous, while blockade and carrier aircraft offered safer ways to exert pressure.
- 2:25:15QuestionWould Hipper's capture change the German command problem?AnswerQ&A
No. A prisoner of war would be unavailable to Scheer just as a dead commander would be.
- 2:27:19Why a tighter Jutland pursuit threatens Germany's slow battleshipsNotable Point
Better British information and a more aggressive pursuit could force the High Seas Fleet to abandon slow pre-dreadnoughts and perhaps its battlecruisers to save the modern battle line.
- 2:29:31QuestionCould Cradock reverse the battlecruiser fleet's gunnery culture?AnswerQ&A
A complete reversal is doubtful, but he could steer the culture in a different direction.
- 2:31:52Battenberg's late-1916 succession and naval research roleNotable Point
Earlier sloops and an anti-submarine inquiry precede a possible handover to Jellicoe in late 1916 and a research role for Battenberg.
- 2:35:28QuestionWould the Admiral-class ships be ordered earlier?AnswerQ&A
The expected timing stays broadly the same, although omitting other capital-ship projects could bring orders forward.
- 2:36:20QuestionDid the Royal Navy have fast minelayers in World War I?AnswerQ&A
Yes. A Marksman-class flotilla leader was converted for fast minelaying, and the Royal Navy operated several fast minelayers.
- 2:50:01A Warspite-style refit for AgincourtNotable Point
A postwar Agincourt could receive a Warspite-style reconstruction while retaining its 5.5-inch secondary battery.
- 2:50:25How 18-inch fast battleships would reshape naval treatiesNotable Point
A postwar treaty cannot simply preserve historical limits if Britain already fields several large, 18-inch-gunned fast battleships.
- 2:50:49How a successful Gallipoli could shorten the wider warNotable Point
Opening the route to Russia could keep Germany fighting on two fronts, encourage earlier unrestricted submarine warfare, and alter both the war's duration and the timing of American entry.
- 2:55:20Why a fifth turret complicates a fast battleshipNotable Point
A central fifth turret competes with machinery space and exposes magazines to heat, encouraging a different heavy-gun arrangement.
- 2:56:57QuestionWould the proposed battleships form a Fisher class?AnswerQ&A
No. Fisher was too divisive, and the proposed names remain Hood, Anson, Howe, and Rodney.
- 2:58:00QuestionWould Jellicoe still become First Sea Lord, and could he remain in the post longer?AnswerQ&A
Probably yes. Battenberg's continued support could make Jellicoe harder to remove and help sustain his policies.
- 2:58:28Earlier carriers and a Fleet Air Arm kept under naval controlNotable Point
Battenberg's support for seaplane carriers and Hermes could accelerate carrier service and strengthen the case for retaining shipborne aviation inside the Royal Navy.
- 3:02:37Why a successful Battenberg might still be underratedNotable Point
Quiet naval administrators can remain obscure or attract blame when their achievements leave fewer memorable public statements.
- 3:03:54How a Coronel victory could reshape the Hawkins classNotable Point
A victorious Cradock could make 9.2-inch armoured cruisers the model for the counterfactual Hawkins class.
- 3:08:55QuestionCould Battenberg have taken a postwar role similar to Jellicoe's mission in Australia?AnswerQ&A
Yes, a similar appointment is possible, although the family obligations, financial losses, and early death of his historical retirement would limit it if repeated.
- 3:11:33QuestionWho would succeed Jellicoe as First Sea Lord?AnswerQ&A
Probably the successful battlecruiser-force commander, most likely Sturdee, with Cradock or Hood as alternatives in this timeline.
- 3:12:09QuestionWhat might a late-1930s British battleship look like if the N3 and G3 designs had been built?AnswerQ&A
The historical King George V baseline disappears; after several intervening classes, a larger four-triple-turret battleship is more plausible than an immediate move to quadruple heavy-gun mountings.
- 3:15:09QuestionWould Battenberg prepare battle plans and weapons for unlikely contingencies such as a war with the United States?AnswerQ&A
Yes. Professional staffs maintain plans for dangerous worst cases regardless of how unlikely or politically undesirable they are.
- 3:18:22QuestionIf a successful Gallipoli reopened supply routes to Russia, would the Russian Revolution still happen?AnswerQ&A
The initial revolution could still occur, but the Bolshevik Revolution might not follow under improved military and supply conditions.
- 3:19:19QuestionCould Battenberg's health withstand the workload of serving as First Sea Lord during the war?AnswerQ&A
Probably only until about 1916; keeping him in the post much longer might have caused his death during the war.
- 3:19:53QuestionHow would the First World War change if the United States allied with the German Empire?AnswerQ&A
Britain would reinforce Canada and exploit alliances with Japan and possibly Mexico, leaving the less-prepared 1914 United States facing Atlantic, Pacific, and continental demands at once.
- 3:22:34QuestionWould the Royal Navy still build 16.5-inch-gunned battleships after moving directly to an 18-inch Agincourt?AnswerQ&A
Possibly. An unsatisfactory 18-inch rate of fire could prompt experiments with a 16.5-inch weapon.
- 3:26:42Why the Pilgrims Society's influence is hard to judgeNotable Point
A proposed account of pro-British social influence remains qualified by uncertainty about its impact and a personal limitation in the histories consulted.
- 3:32:39Veracruz as an early naval test of a German-American allianceNotable Point
An alliance formed before April 1914 could bring the Royal Navy into the Veracruz crisis and expose American fleet limitations.