Video
Patreon 97: What if Senator Tillman was at the Washington Naval Treaty...
Study Patreon 97: What if Senator Tillman was at the Washington Naval Treaty..., a Dr. Alex Clarke video from 9 Feb 2024, with 70 time notes. Topics include Aircraft Carriers, Alternate History, Benjamin Tillman.
Time notes
- 8:51Tillman shapes the conference without being a delegateChapter
The scenario places Benjamin Tillman in Washington as a behind-the-scenes Senate power broker rather than a formal treaty delegate.
- 11:02QuestionWas Tillman's naval policy chiefly directed against Britain?AnswerQ&A
He invoked Britain or Japan according to which threat would help him obtain the construction he wanted.
- 16:03A battleship ceiling clears the way for cruisersChapter
Tillman's giant battleship proposals are interpreted as a way to end incremental escalation and redirect American construction toward cruisers.
- 19:17Charleston Navy Yard anchors Tillman's strategyChapter
Charleston's cruiser-sized facilities turn naval procurement into jobs, electoral leverage, and a durable South Carolina power base.
- 21:19Tillman's constituency service does not soften his racial politicsNotable Point
Tillman's effectiveness for South Carolina sat alongside the racism and sectarian prejudice that shaped his political faction.
- 23:35British cruiser development draws on several wartime forcesNotable Point
Harwich Force experience formed part of a wider body of wartime lessons for British cruiser development.
- 28:05HMS Hood pushes the ceiling above 35,000 tonsChapter
Tillman's experience with maximum battleships makes the historical 35,000-ton limit implausible while HMS Hood remains a 41,000-ton benchmark.
- 33:43QuestionWould widening the Panama Canal's locks be enough for much larger battleships?AnswerQ&A
No. The ships would also need enough room to maneuver through the canal, whose strategic importance made compatibility essential.
- 34:24QuestionWhat standard displacement should be used for Hood in this treaty counterfactual?AnswerQ&A
41,000 tons, the British figure accepted in the Washington treaty.
- 35:45Tillman must survive long enough to embed the bargainChapter
The counterfactual requires Tillman to win reelection and remain influential until roughly 1928, not merely live to see the conference.
- 40:19QuestionCould Tillman's scenario shift resources from battleships to aircraft carriers?AnswerQ&A
Not as a substitute for battleships in the 1920s: early carrier aircraft were not yet decisive, and their most important fleet role was often spotting for capital-ship guns.
- 41:51The Omaha orders reveal the first divergenceChapter
Tillman's less naval-minded successors let Charleston miss the Omaha program; his survival would almost certainly redirect cruiser orders there.
- 44:41QuestionWould direct popular election have broken Tillman's hold on his Senate seat?AnswerQ&A
The change had already occurred during his career. Winning the Democratic primary still put him in a strong position to retain the seat.
- 49:11Omaha's mixed battery hedges an experimental designNotable Point
The Omaha class combines new six-inch turrets with traditional casemate guns because the Navy had not yet proved the turret arrangement.
- 51:58QuestionWould Tillman support a 16,000-ton cruiser built at Charleston?AnswerQ&A
He would be interested if the proposal included the yard investment needed to build it and preserve local employment.
- 56:18A jobs coalition gains power as talks drag onChapter
Extended negotiations reward Tillman's backroom skills and give a dozen pro-construction senators leverage over a treaty requiring ratification.
- 1:03:22Shipyard politics decide which capital ships surviveChapter
Tillman's domestic target list follows allied senators, swing states, and working shipyards rather than a neutral ranking of hull completion.
- 1:10:10QuestionWas an interwar Anglo-American war likely?AnswerQ&A
Continued industrial cooperation and limited intelligence gathering suggest that war was unlikely, despite both navies retaining contingency plans.
- 1:13:20QuestionHow did the United States miss British water-based armor despite constructor exchanges?AnswerQ&A
American designers did not ask whether Britain had solved a concept they had already judged impractical, illustrating the limits of informal technical exchange without focused intelligence requirements.
- 1:15:48QuestionCould American pressure over British war debt trigger a conflict?AnswerQ&A
It was unlikely because coercion would disrupt trade and finance while leaving the United States with global policing burdens it did not want in the 1920s.
- 1:21:44Cheap loans can give a neighboring state political leverageNotable Point
Supporting a neighbor's borrowing can promote stability while creating leverage over its future access to credit.
- 1:22:59The Hawkins class exposes America's cruiser gapChapter
A visit to a Hawkins-class cruiser would give Tillman a concrete foreign benchmark and ammunition for a hostile Senate hearing on American design.
- 1:25:49Three South Dakotas reshape the American settlementChapter
The revised treaty completes three politically selected South Dakotas, retains three Colorados, and retires older ships under a 40,000-ton ceiling.
- 1:30:14Japan trades older hulls for Tosa or AmagiChapter
A 360,000-ton Japanese allowance creates several plausible exchanges between Kongo-class ships and the unfinished Tosa or Amagi designs.
- 1:33:31Britain can build a squadron of F3-like fast battleshipsChapter
A 600,000-ton allowance gives Britain several paths to five or six new capital ships without sacrificing its 15-inch battle line.
- 1:38:22QuestionCould Britain distribute surplus capital ships among Dominion navies instead of scrapping them?AnswerQ&A
Not outside the treaty allocation; Australia might operate Tiger on Britain's behalf, but transferring modern ships could not be used to escape the limits.
- 1:40:47Reserve squadrons preserve wartime fleet depthNotable Point
Keeping older capital ships in reserve conserves machinery and provides hulls that trained reservists can mobilize when wartime demand exceeds the peacetime fleet.
- 1:50:42QuestionWould Britain arm all its new capital ships with 15-inch guns?AnswerQ&A
No. The battleships would retain 16-inch guns for parity, while the battlecruiser could use 15-inch/50 weapons.
- 1:51:28Four Lexington conversions create demand for escortsChapter
The alternate treaty doubles carrier allowances, preserves four Lexington hulls, and limits their guns to six inches to protect cruiser demand.
- 1:56:17QuestionCould the need for cruiser escorts justify removing battleships' secondary guns?AnswerQ&A
No. Secondary guns defend against destroyers that penetrate the cruiser screen while the main battery engages larger targets.
- 2:00:04QuestionCould larger carriers operate twin-engine torpedo bombers carrying larger torpedoes?AnswerQ&A
Japan might try, depending on its available conversion hulls. Britain could still prefer more flight decks and room for later construction over maximizing each early carrier.
- 2:01:11QuestionDid Tillman want cruisers only because Charleston could build them?AnswerQ&A
No. He also valued trade protection and fleet reconnaissance, although cruisers' sustained employment at Charleston made them especially attractive.
- 2:02:46QuestionWould navies use their treaty tonnage immediately or save some for later?AnswerQ&A
They would mix the two. Battleship allowances would be used and renewed through replacement, while carrier construction would take years to absorb the available tonnage.
- 2:04:07QuestionWould later American carriers resemble Ranger or Yorktown under the revised allowance?AnswerQ&A
Rough equivalents are plausible. The later calculation allows six 23,000-ton Yorktown-like carriers after four Lexington conversions.
- 2:04:16Japan must choose between battleships and carrier conversionsChapter
Japanese treaty gains collide with limited laid-down hulls, cumulative carrier tonnage, and the earthquake that historically destroyed Amagi.
- 2:07:28QuestionHow should Tillman's racism affect judgments about the counterfactual's naval gains?AnswerQ&A
Useful naval outcomes would not excuse his racism or change the patronage and reelection motives behind his policies.
- 2:08:26QuestionWould the sub-10,000-ton carrier loophole survive, and would Japan exploit it more aggressively?AnswerQ&A
It remains at this stage, but large carrier conversions and battleship completions could leave Japan little capacity or immediate reason to exploit it.
- 2:09:30Succession planning can preserve the naval coalitionNotable Point
A longer-lived Tillman could groom a successor who understood the link between naval contracts, South Carolina employment, and Senate influence.
- 2:10:49A 12,000-ton cruiser keeps yards and designers busyChapter
Raising the cruiser ceiling to 12,000 tons creates an immediate break from Omaha and invites twelve-gun heavy-cruiser designs.
- 2:14:09Twelve-gun Counties increase the pressure on German raidersNotable Point
The proposed twelve-gun County adds firepower to a speed advantage that already makes German raiders wary.
- 2:15:50QuestionWould the Royal Navy use quadruple six-inch turrets on a 12,000-ton cruiser?AnswerQ&A
Possibly. Five triple turrets are another option, and the scenario does not settle the arrangement.
- 2:16:21A 12,000-ton threshold separates trade and fleet carriersChapter
The proposed threshold permits a practical small carrier for trade protection while preserving the counted allowance for larger fleet carriers.
- 2:19:38Extra tonnage amplifies national cruiser doctrineNotable Point
A 12,000-ton limit would magnify the different American and Japanese preferences for protection, firepower, speed, and torpedoes.
- 2:20:45QuestionWould widespread use of sub-12,000-ton carriers cause a later treaty to close the loophole?AnswerQ&A
It would probably produce a recognized light-carrier category with its own limits because several navies would already have an interest in retaining the type.
- 2:21:31Continuous shipbuilding could soften the DepressionNotable Point
A larger treaty fleet keeps shipyards, suppliers, and wages active, giving Britain and America an industrial cushion after the Wall Street Crash.
- 2:25:07QuestionCould a larger Ark Royal gain better subdivision and armor?AnswerQ&A
Yes. A 27,000-ton design could combine an Ark Royal-sized strike group with subdivision and armor comparable to Illustrious.
- 2:25:52QuestionWould a larger interwar carrier program help develop wartime escort carriers?AnswerQ&A
Yes. Designs could be reused and an established program could continue building when cumulative treaty limits ceased to constrain it.
- 2:27:02More carriers reshape doctrine and aircraft productionChapter
Larger aircraft orders could strengthen the Fleet Air Arm, while more carrier tonnage would ease Britain's tradeoff between protection and air-group size.
- 2:27:21QuestionCould stronger British shipbuilding soften the crash enough to prevent Hitler's rise?AnswerQ&A
Probably not, because the stimulus would remain domestic while protectionism still destroyed the export markets on which Germany depended.
- 2:29:17Italy gains several Caracciolo-class battleshipsChapter
A larger Italian allowance could revive Caracciolo-class construction, with three completions suggested as an estimate and French funding still uncertain.
- 2:31:51QuestionWould a looser treaty make Japan build an even larger Yamato?AnswerQ&A
Not necessarily. Tosa completions and larger carriers could reduce the pressure for an extreme design, while yard capacity would still limit size.
- 2:34:17QuestionWould more Japanese carriers become a larger part of the Kantai Kessen strategy?AnswerQ&A
They would strengthen the pre-battle attrition phase, but carriers were already integrated into the wider strategy that culminated in the decisive battle.
- 2:34:54QuestionWhere do claims about planned 17,000-ton Royal Navy carriers come from?AnswerQ&A
They come from design studies rather than an active construction plan; the papers explored alternatives and could inform later carrier projects.
- 2:37:04A longer F3-style hull separates magazines from machineryNotable Point
Additional hull length supports speed, firing arcs, and better separation of magazines from boilers.
- 2:41:10Roskill's source base leaves a gap around naval constructionNotable Point
The dispute over planned carriers turns on constructor records and the procurement experience missing from Roskill's interview sources.
- 2:44:20Contingency plans do not prove a likely warNotable Point
War plans cover unexpected conflicts, while carrier design studies preserve options for emergencies; neither alone establishes a government's intent.
- 2:46:12Minimal carrier studies contribute to later practical designsNotable Point
Unicorn and light fleet carriers benefited from earlier work on minimal and rapidly built carriers.
- 2:46:47QuestionWhat was the value of trying to improve on Hermes within 10,000 tons?AnswerQ&A
The exercise taught constructors how competing design requirements interacted, even when it could not produce an acceptable ship.
- 2:50:27Alternate history works best near the point of divergenceNotable Point
The scenario stops before the 1930 treaty and the Second World War because uncertainty multiplies rapidly beyond the first treaty settlement.
- 2:54:51QuestionCan Roskill's interwar naval policy history still be trusted if its carrier claims are wrong?AnswerQ&A
Yes, but construction sections and some strategic conclusions need caution because important decision-makers were unavailable and had left incomplete records.
- 2:55:35QuestionWhat happens when ships become outdated while sitting in reserve?AnswerQ&A
They remain available for secondary roles until newer reserve ships replace them, after which the oldest hulls can be discarded.
- 2:56:27QuestionWhat would Germany need in order to afford and build aircraft carriers early?AnswerQ&A
A radically different Versailles settlement preserving both the German economy and its maritime industrial base, followed by much greater priority for naval infrastructure.
- 2:58:57A New Orleans capital changes Confederate strategyNotable Point
A classroom counterfactual moves the Confederate capital south, changing blockade pressure, strategic depth, infrastructure, and possibly state alignment.
- 3:00:27QuestionWhy could the Royal Navy build small wartime escort carriers but not a viable sub-10,000-ton peacetime carrier?AnswerQ&A
Wartime escort carriers accepted merchant-hull standards and emergency compromises that a peacetime warship was expected to avoid.
- 3:01:42QuestionDid training in the Soviet Union give the German Army and Air Force a special interwar advantage?AnswerQ&A
It was one part of a wider network. German personnel also trained and exercised elsewhere, most famously in Spain.
- 3:02:04QuestionWould a 9.2-inch-gun Dorsetshire have fired eight torpedoes at Bismarck?AnswerQ&A
There is not enough information: gun caliber alone does not determine torpedo fit or tactics, so the alternative ship's size and full design must be defined first.
- 3:03:15QuestionWhy did the Royal Navy take so long to return to an all-forward main-gun layout?AnswerQ&A
All-forward armament is a tonnage-saving compromise; when displacement is available, a balanced layout offers better magazine separation and damage resilience.
- 3:04:51QuestionHow would Soviet entry into the naval treaties affect the Baltic, Black Sea, and wider balance?AnswerQ&A
It would destabilize the ratio negotiations, alarm Japan, stretch Soviet tonnage across several fleets, and force Germany to plan against an additional capital-ship threat.
- 3:13:00Soviet battleships depend on foreign technical linksNotable Point
Existing foreign technical links could support a slow domestic battleship program and the infrastructure needed to maintain it.
- 3:14:23QuestionCould a Unicorn-based carrier serve in trade protection?AnswerQ&A
Yes. Trade protection is a plausible secondary role for Unicorn and a corresponding sister ship.