Video
Patreon 50: 1939 Destroyer Doctrine of the combatant navies & Where did it come from?
Study Patreon 50: 1939 Destroyer Doctrine of the combatant navies & Where did it come from?, a Dr. Alex Clarke video from 31 Mar 2022, with 56 time notes. Topics include Destroyers, Force Structure, Japanese Navy.
Time notes
- 0:43Read doctrine through missions and ship designChapter
Published doctrine is one clue among several; missions, operations, procurement, and the ships actually built reveal what a navy expects its destroyers to do.
- 7:02A destroyer force can divide missions among different designsNotable Point
A navy may split destroyer work across specialized types, provided each design can cover enough secondary duties for the force to operate as a coherent whole.
- 10:28Why no destroyer is universally bestChapter
A destroyer design follows national exposure: convoy protection, fleet screening, carriers, geography, treaties, and the money available.
- 10:49Why a requirements matrix cannot choose a coherent forceNotable Point
Ajax, Warrior, frigate delays, and the carrier air group illustrate how checklist procurement can obscure missions and tradeoffs.
- 12:48Henderson and Chatfield argue over destroyer sizeNotable Point
Different Royal Navy readings of First World War service produced a 1930s struggle between powerful fleet destroyers and numerous smaller utility ships.
- 16:00QuestionWould Poland's Borsuk infantry fighting vehicle be a better British choice than Ajax?AnswerQ&A
CV90 is preferred for Britain because its strengths align more closely with British northern-flank duties, even though Borsuk is described as a capable design.
- 23:01QuestionIs it better to maintain many small, replaceable destroyers, or build a few ships as powerful as possible?AnswerQ&A
Neither rule works universally: a navy needs enough hulls for its missions, but each must still be strong enough to survive its likely opponents and perform cruiser-like duties when required.
- 25:07QuestionHow many British merchant sailors could support a Royal Navy buildup over several years?AnswerQ&A
The Royal Navy would need to look mainly to its reserves, not the merchant marine, whose relatively small and officer-heavy workforce is essential to keeping commercial shipping operating.
- 26:18QuestionDid the treaty system cap individual destroyer displacement, or only a navy's total destroyer tonnage?AnswerQ&A
Washington supplied the 10,000-ton capital-ship threshold, while the London treaties introduced the destroyer-specific limits and category tonnage rules.
- 29:30QuestionCould the outnumbered H-class action at Narvik be treated as a costly tactical success?AnswerQ&A
Only in a qualified sense: the ships did what the emergency required, but they were fighting outside their intended role because heavier destroyers had not entered service in sufficient numbers.
- 32:08German destroyers: ambitious roles, inadequate numbersNotable Point
Germany's Type 1934 through 1936A destroyers attempted general-purpose escort and attack roles, but a small force could not survive Narvik losses and sustain doctrine.
- 46:21QuestionDoes the arrival of a battleship such as Warspite overturn a destroyer force's doctrine?AnswerQ&A
No. Destroyer doctrine must include a response to enemy capital ships, and the Royal Navy's response was to close the range and attack with torpedoes.
- 47:21QuestionDid German destroyer guns have the same limited dual-purpose character as the secondary batteries of German capital ships?AnswerQ&A
To an extent. The guns had a theoretical dual-purpose role, but they were less capable than the British 4.7-inch system and sat in manual rather than automatic mountings.
- 48:30QuestionWhy did the Royal Navy not respond quickly enough to German submarine construction before the war?AnswerQ&A
It did begin multiple escort programs before war, but building enough ships took time and convoy defense required many more escorts than Germany needed submarines to exploit a weak point.
- 53:32Italian destroyers built for speed and torpedo attackChapter
Regia Marina destroyers reflected Adriatic torpedo-boat experience: fast offensive ships that struggled to serve as task-group shields.
- 57:39Cruiser gun calibre follows independent or escort dutyNotable Point
A six-inch cruiser suits independent combat, while a Dido-style 5.25-inch battery makes more sense for a ship whose main task is defending a fleet from destroyers and aircraft.
- 1:05:12Japanese destroyers as carrier screens and night huntersChapter
Imperial Japanese Navy destroyers paired daytime fleet and carrier protection with trained night torpedo ambush tactics.
- 1:07:18QuestionDid Italy have a merchant fleet during the Second World War?AnswerQ&A
Yes, and without it the North Africa campaign would have ended quickly because Axis forces would have run out of fuel and food.
- 1:09:41Treaty figures still left real design marginsNotable Point
Declared tonnage and nominal speed were not exact physical ceilings: ships varied within design tolerances and sometimes exceeded their published performance.
- 1:15:39French and Soviet destroyer forces without their intended fleetNotable Point
French large destroyers and Soviet leaders show how designs can be shaped by capital-ship and Mediterranean roles that wartime events never fully allowed them to perform.
- 1:22:14QuestionDid any of these large destroyers actually take on smaller destroyers or cruisers?AnswerQ&A
Not the French ships in the intended doctrinal contest, but Royal Navy large destroyers repeatedly fought cruisers and destroyers, including the Tribal-class attack at Cape Bon.
- 1:24:07QuestionWhy did the French Navy use such unusual-looking gun calibres?AnswerQ&A
Many figures came from translating inch-based gun sizes into millimetres and then applying inconsistent rounding, which left apparently awkward values rather than a neat universal series.
- 1:32:24QuestionWhat wars offer examples of participants that were actually prepared?AnswerQ&A
Some Anglo-Dutch and Napoleonic wars followed deliberate rearmament, while the Six-Day War showed one side far better prepared; the practical standard is resilience and a high enough fighting-efficiency level to survive the opening phase.
- 1:36:02Why the Royal Navy treated the American wars as secondary theatresNotable Point
In this strategic framing, Britain prioritized the French fleet over North America during both the American Revolutionary War and the War of 1812.
- 1:38:17QuestionWhat did Soviet destroyers do during the Second World War?AnswerQ&A
They supported some White Sea convoys and operated extensively in the Black Sea, laying mines and providing fire support rather than screening the capital ships for which much of the force had been conceived.
- 1:39:29QuestionDid the French or Italian navies adopt Hedgehog and related anti-submarine weapons during the Second World War?AnswerQ&A
Not to a significant wartime extent in this account; access expanded just after the war as NATO formed and members prepared for the emerging Soviet submarine threat.
- 1:44:09Greece lacked the destroyer force its islands requiredChapter
Greece needed powerful, mobile ships to reinforce islands and deter Italy, but money and small orders left it between an unaffordable fleet destroyer and an insufficient utility force.
- 1:44:09Small navies still need a coherent destroyer forceChapter
Greek, Dutch, Norwegian, and Polish examples show the difference between buying ships, building a force around a mission, and having enough hulls to execute it.
- 1:49:27Sea power made Britain's empire sustainableNotable Point
Britain's pursuit of naval dominance was not separate from empire: control of maritime communications was what allowed the imperial system to be maintained.
- 1:52:43QuestionWas there any fleet that would not have wanted the Tribal-class destroyer?AnswerQ&A
Yes. The Tribal fit British and Commonwealth requirements, but its gun-heavy specialization did not suit the U.S., German, or Italian destroyer systems as well as designs tailored to their own missions.
- 1:55:01QuestionDid naval treaties forbid a shipbuilding power from taking over foreign warships in its yards when war began?AnswerQ&A
Yes. Article 17 of the Washington Naval Treaty prohibited using undelivered warships being built for another power, although Britain had a history of compulsory purchase in wartime.
- 1:57:49Naval supremacy can survive serious ship lossesNotable Point
Losing Hood, Ark Royal, Prince of Wales, and Repulse hurt British power without ending sea control because Britain could still operate, deny enemy use, and build replacements.
- 1:59:45Dutch destroyers outlived their intended battlecruiser fleetChapter
Fine Dutch fleet destroyers were designed to screen battlecruisers in Southeast Asia, then fought without that larger force and were dispersed into catastrophic wartime actions.
- 2:01:58A wartime fleet must be designed to lose shipsNotable Point
A force that assumes nothing will be lost becomes brittle; planners need replacement depth for exposed units and backups for systems whose failure would stop the fleet.
- 2:10:25QuestionIf the prewar U.S. Navy planned for heavy carrier losses, did it make the same assumption about fast oilers?AnswerQ&A
To an extent. It expected to lose many support ships but hoped not to lose the whole oiler force because replacement speed was uncertain.
- 2:10:49Norway's destroyers could not shield its coastal-defense shipsNotable Point
Norway paired slow coastal-defense ships with tiny vessels that lacked the speed, seaworthiness, guns, and torpedoes to distract a modern enemy destroyer force.
- 2:20:02Poland designed powerful destroyers for Baltic warChapter
Wicher- and Grom-class destroyers gave Poland gun, torpedo, and anti-aircraft power for Baltic sweeps and convoy protection despite the army's stronger claim on national resources.
- 2:22:56QuestionWas interwar Norway simply too poor to invest in better destroyers?AnswerQ&A
No. Norway had limited resources, but somewhat more capable ships could have been funded without a massive budget increase.
- 2:25:12QuestionCould Germany's S-boats make up for the shortcomings of its destroyer force?AnswerQ&A
No. S-boats were effective in their own role but could not provide ocean-going fleet escort, and Germany needed several times more destroyers to support its planned heavy ships.
- 2:30:17QuestionShould the Royal Navy's J-, K-, and N-class ships be treated as fleet or utility destroyers?AnswerQ&A
They count as fleet destroyers within the simplified utility, fleet, and war-emergency framework, although the categories require some adaptation.
- 2:30:40QuestionWhere is the line between an interwar destroyer and a scout cruiser?AnswerQ&A
Destroyers sit at roughly 2,000 tons or below in this comparison, while ships approaching 3,500 tons enter scout-cruiser territory and large leaders blur the categories.
- 2:31:05Royal Navy destroyers: the Tribal spearhead and flotillaChapter
The Royal Navy combined mass utility flotillas with larger Tribal and later fleet destroyers to protect them, illuminate targets, and open torpedo attacks.
- 2:32:57Air attack forced British destroyer armament to changeNotable Point
The Royal Navy needed more high-angle firepower, but institutional delay and an unfinished 4.5-inch mount forced wartime compromises with 4-inch and 4.7-inch weapons.
- 2:43:45QuestionWould Royal Navy destroyers illuminate a night target with shell explosions or fire flares overhead?AnswerQ&A
Primarily with direct explosive fire intended to start visible fires and disrupt the target, though illumination ammunition could also be adapted to the task.
- 2:45:20Why Tribal destroyers suited Canada and AustraliaNotable Point
For Canada and Australia, Tribals provided presence, scouting, escort leadership, and a force able to stand in for scarcer cruisers.
- 2:48:25Canadian Tribals kept German destroyers from Normandy's supply lanesNotable Point
The 10th Destroyer Flotilla's offensive sweeps protected the D-Day lodgement from surface attack and guarded the flow of men and supplies ashore.
- 2:52:52QuestionHow many Tribal-class destroyers were the Royal Navy, Royal Canadian Navy, and Royal Australian Navy supposed to receive?AnswerQ&A
The Royal Navy planned sixty but received sixteen; Canada and Australia initially planned eight each, later adjusted to twelve Canadian and four Australian ships with some local construction.
- 2:56:43Australia's Scrap Iron Flotilla made aggression a doctrineChapter
Older Australian destroyers turned an Axis insult into the Scrap Iron Flotilla identity and pursued an exceptionally aggressive Mediterranean combat style.
- 3:04:09The Sims lineage behind the Fletcher destroyersChapter
The Sims class gave the U.S. Navy a practical general-purpose fleet escort pattern that evolved through Benson and Gleaves designs into the Fletcher program.
- 3:12:37U.S. destroyers balance torpedo attack with fleet defenseNotable Point
American doctrine moved from heavily offensive torpedo ships toward all-round destroyers able to defend a Pacific fleet and its logistics.
- 3:16:56QuestionHow would prewar U.S. destroyers and their doctrine fare against a U-boat?AnswerQ&A
The U.S. Navy was developing sonar and had capable specialists, but British ASDIC was further advanced and American institutional attention remained focused more heavily on fighting Japan.
- 3:18:40Japan's Axis ties did not close key technology gapsNotable Point
Japan's alliance relationships could have been used to acquire synthetic-fuel capacity and stronger anti-aircraft weapons, but institutional confidence limited that exchange.
- 3:24:23Judge destroyers by mission fit, not a universal rankingChapter
The final argument rejects a universal 'best destroyer': a good force has enough ships, a doctrine it can execute, and designs matched to its geography and fleet.
- 3:26:44Why games and Top Trumps distort warship comparisonsNotable Point
Games usually force a battle to continue, while real commanders can withdraw after meeting a mission; platform statistics alone therefore exaggerate what makes a ship effective.
- 3:28:18Destroyers force battleships to maneuver and lose their aimNotable Point
Torpedo threats make destroyers decisive participants in capital-ship actions by forcing battleships to turn, divide their fire, and abandon attacks on vulnerable convoys.
- 3:37:10QuestionWhat does the name '31-Knot Burke' refer to?AnswerQ&A
It refers to Arleigh Burke's determination not to operate below full speed, which is presented as sound doctrine for a U.S. destroyer commander.