Video

Lions not Indefatigables - the Dominions chose to build 13.5in Battlecruisers prior to WWI...

Study Lions not Indefatigables - the Dominions chose to build 13.5in Battlecruisers prior to WWI..., a Dr. Alex Clarke video from 18 Dec 2025, with 56 time notes. Topics include Alternate History, Battle Of Dogger Bank…

Date
Runtime2:41:30
Guide points56 time notes

Time notes

  1. 4:38
    Why the scenario starts with 13.5-inch Lions

    The starting proposal changes because Lion had already been ordered when the Dominions selected their ships.

    Notable Point
  2. 10:04
    Dominion cruiser squadrons and imperial cost sharing

    The 1909 conference proposed Dominion cruiser squadrons and raised the choice of what kind of battlecruiser should lead them.

    Chapter
  3. 13:10
    Dominion self-government and local defence costs

    British demands for local naval spending formed part of a long effort to distribute imperial defence costs.

    Notable Point
  4. 17:16
    Lion and Indefatigable: comparing complete procurement costs

    An Indefatigable price excluding weapons makes the saving over an all-up Lion price look larger than it was.

    Chapter
  5. 19:08
    Lion's broadside and the cruiser-hunting tradeoff

    Lion combined a practical eight-gun 13.5-inch broadside with greater speed for fighting enemy battlecruisers.

    Notable Point
  6. 22:15
    Matching Dominion ships to future threats

    A cruiser threat justified Indefatigable, while the prospect of enemy battlecruisers strengthened the case for Lion.

    Notable Point
  7. 24:42
    Lion's shorter range and imperial coaling stations

    Lion's shorter nominal endurance had to be weighed against its speed and Britain's extensive coaling network.

    Notable Point
  8. 26:24
    Capital-ship ordering dates and all-up costs

    The 1909 ordering sequence shows that the Dominion ships could have joined the Lion program without waiting for a later design generation.

    Chapter
  9. 29:53
    QuestionWhy were small-tube boilers not adopted in the Queen Elizabeth class when related machinery was already available?Answer

    The technology existed, but the Royal Navy avoided stacking another major change onto a design already introducing new speed, armament, and gun layout.

    Q&A
  10. 33:42
    Tiger's price jump and the cost of choosing Lion

    The roughly £90,000 gap between Australia and Lion is used to challenge the cost argument, beside Tiger's much larger price increase.

    Notable Point
  11. 42:30
    HMS New Zealand, range, and Dominion funding

    New Zealand's capital contribution bought the empire another battlecruiser while Britain absorbed its personnel and operating costs.

    Chapter
  12. 43:21
    Tiger's endurance at 24 knots

    Tiger's estimated endurance at high speed complicates comparisons based on nominal cruising range.

    Notable Point
  13. 47:28
    The 1909 naval panic and a twelve-ship imperial order

    Dominion battlecruisers raised the 1909 empire-wide order to twelve capital ships, including two funded outside Britain's ten-ship parliamentary program.

    Notable Point
  14. 48:45
    Lion as a response to German battlecruisers

    Lion prepared British battlecruisers to defeat enemy battlecruisers as well as hunt armored cruisers.

    Chapter
  15. 54:24
    Moltke and Goeben as possible Far Eastern opponents

    Germany's practice of sending powerful cruiser pairs overseas gives the Dominion Lion proposal a longer-term strategic rationale.

    Notable Point
  16. 57:39
    QuestionHow much would the cost fall if Britain and the Dominions ordered about seven similar Lion-type ships?Answer

    Only modestly, because several yards would build the ships at much the same time.

    Q&A
  17. 58:29
    QuestionWould a larger force of 13.5-inch battlecruisers produce higher postwar treaty limits or prevent a treaty altogether?Answer

    Not confidently from the extra Lions alone; the treaty outcome depends on how their wartime service changes Dogger Bank and everything after it.

    Q&A
  18. 59:56
    QuestionWould Queen Mary and Tiger become cheaper if the empire built roughly ten Lion-class ships?Answer

    They probably would not be built at all unless a much larger threat justified continuing battlecruiser expansion.

    Q&A
  19. 1:02:17
    QuestionWhen did another country's fleet become a British threat rather than a welcome contribution to maritime security?Answer

    Intent, geography, and the wider military balance mattered more than a fixed percentage of Royal Navy strength; Germany triggered all three concerns.

    Q&A
  20. 1:05:57
    Second-batch Lions accelerate British design

    Four 1909 Lion-type orders fit the assumed yard capacity and give designers another batch in which to incorporate improvements.

    Chapter
  21. 1:10:29
    Dominion Lions and the Pacific gun race

    Pacific Dominion Lions could hasten Japanese construction within Eight-Eight Fleet limits and increase interest in heavier American guns.

    Chapter
  22. 1:12:51
    Germany's response to a larger modern British squadron

    A larger, more uniform British battlecruiser force raises the question of whether Germany should persist with its historical designs.

    Notable Point
  23. 1:18:21
    A 15-inch Tiger and fast-battleship convergence

    Earlier design evolution makes Tiger a plausible first 15-inch ship and leaves small-tube boilers and greater speed as Queen Elizabeth's major new features.

    Chapter
  24. 1:23:12
    QuestionWould the Queen Elizabeth class gain triple turrets or small-tube boilers in this scenario?Answer

    Small-tube boilers are judged more likely, potentially with five twin turrets and a speed of about 25-26 knots.

    Q&A
  25. 1:27:18
    Dogger Bank with faster, heavier British ships

    Replacing the slow ships in the chase with modern battlecruisers lets the British close together and makes German disengagement harder.

    Chapter
  26. 1:31:16
    Could Queen Elizabeth join the Dogger Bank force?

    A hypothetical 28-knot Queen Elizabeth gives a reason to combine the fast battleship and battlecruiser forces.

    Notable Point
  27. 1:33:04
    Alexander Bethell and Beatty's signals

    Adding Queen Elizabeth could bring a senior officer prepared to challenge an ambiguous signal.

    Notable Point
  28. 1:37:23
    Why a former intelligence director could challenge Beatty

    Bethell's institutional experience supplies the reasoning behind his imagined independence at Dogger Bank.

    Notable Point
  29. 1:38:36
    Heavy guns and director fire control at Dogger Bank

    Two 15-inch ships and three 13.5-inch ships form one proposed force for a more destructive pursuit.

    Notable Point
  30. 1:40:36
    Could Germany trade battleships for more battlecruisers?

    Cutting battleship orders offers Germany one possible response, though the scenario expects the historical programme to persist.

    Notable Point
  31. 1:43:08
    Dogger Bank simulations and the damaged-ship dilemma

    An altered-force simulation tests how an early hit could force Germany to choose between escape and protecting a damaged ship.

    Notable Point
  32. 1:44:25
    What follows if the First Scouting Group is destroyed?

    A major German defeat could cost experienced commanders as well as ships, while larger British light forces press the retreat.

    Chapter
  33. 1:48:14
    Could Britain turn the coastal raiding campaign around?

    A depleted German scouting force could leave Britain more willing to risk fast ships in raids along the German coast.

    Notable Point
  34. 1:53:14
    Dogger Bank damage and future capital-ship design

    If the newer ships absorbed damage well, their performance could strengthen the case for another fast-battleship generation.

    Notable Point
  35. 1:54:28
    The cost of missing Jutland's lessons

    A victory that prevents a Jutland-like battle could leave later navies without some of its hard-earned operational lessons.

    Notable Point
  36. 2:00:00
    QuestionWould a stronger British battlecruiser fleet make the German army intervene in naval budgets sooner?Answer

    Only if Germany spends beyond its historical plan; matching Britain more aggressively would bring the army-budget conflict forward.

    Q&A
  37. 2:03:26
    QuestionWould a 13.5-inch HMS New Zealand be even more formidable given her wartime reputation for luck?Answer

    The joke adds heavier guns to the ship's established reputation for surviving danger.

    Q&A
  38. 2:04:47
    QuestionWould one Tiger, one Queen Mary, four Lions, one Indefatigable, and three Invincibles simply negate Britain's historical battlecruiser losses at Jutland?Answer

    No simple subtraction works, because the altered force changes Dogger Bank first and may prevent a historical Jutland from occurring at all.

    Q&A
  39. 2:05:54
    QuestionIf Tiger already carried eight 15-inch guns, what armament and speed would the Queen Elizabeth class adopt?Answer

    Probably either eight guns at about 28 knots or ten guns at about 26 knots, using small-tube boilers and familiar twin turrets.

    Q&A
  40. 2:07:12
    Faster R-class ships and eight-gun Renowns

    Improved machinery could pass into the R class and leave Renown and Repulse with eight 15-inch guns.

    Notable Point
  41. 2:13:04
    QuestionHow would France, Austria-Hungary, and Italy respond to faster British 15-inch capital ships?Answer

    Italy would likely press the Francesco Caracciolo class hardest, while French and Austro-Hungarian responses would be more constrained.

    Q&A
  42. 2:16:21
    QuestionCould Queen Elizabeth carry twelve 15-inch guns at 26 knots using triple turrets?Answer

    The design is treated as technologically possible, but British reluctance to adopt an untried arrangement makes it unlikely.

    Q&A
  43. 2:17:31
    Why speed alone could not confer capital-ship prestige

    A very fast ship with smaller guns might gain tactical freedom, but it would not satisfy the prestige demands that drove prewar capital-ship procurement.

    Notable Point
  44. 2:20:14
    QuestionWould a larger British victory over the German scouting group send more ships to Gallipoli?Answer

    The existing Dardanelles force was already strong; lower North Sea risk might instead make Britain more willing to accept losses.

    Q&A
  45. 2:21:06
    Tegetthoff's triple turrets and naval status

    Austro-Hungarian turret arrangements could confer regional prestige without meeting Britain's different expectations as the leading maritime power.

    Notable Point
  46. 2:22:23
    QuestionWould the Germans still dare to bring the High Seas Fleet out against the stronger British force?Answer

    Probably at first, but not after losing the First Scouting Group that made German raids and traps possible.

    Q&A
  47. 2:23:36
    QuestionWould assigning the Third Battlecruiser Squadron to Harwich Force improve its operations?Answer

    It would add cover, but the accompanying senior admiral could override Tyrwhitt and reduce the force's operational advantage.

    Q&A
  48. 2:25:02
    QuestionWhy can airliners gain or lose fuselage sections more readily than warships?Answer

    Ships can be stretched, but hull curvature, strength, loading, stability, and hydrodynamics make the change more complex and politically unattractive.

    Q&A
  49. 2:26:53
    QuestionHow would faster Queen Elizabeth and R classes affect the later Admiral-class design?Answer

    The Admirals could begin as well-protected fast battleships. That makes all four more likely to be completed and alters treaty bargaining.

    Q&A
  50. 2:31:23
    QuestionCould torpedo bombers be developed in time to attack a German fleet that refuses battle?Answer

    Potentially; a fleet-in-being would raise the priority of both torpedo aircraft and the carriers needed to deploy them.

    Q&A
  51. 2:31:49
    QuestionWould the scenario create permanent Dominion flagships or another lasting Dominion naval arrangement?Answer

    Possibly, but the larger effect may be no Washington treaty if the United States chooses rapid capital-ship replacement instead.

    Q&A
  52. 2:32:19
    QuestionWould a 13.5-inch 50-calibre gun appear in this timeline?Answer

    Probably not; Britain would more likely improve the 45-calibre weapon because its slower wear better suited global operations.

    Q&A
  53. 2:33:22
    QuestionWould submarine losses and low-freeboard problems still be recognized if Jutland never occurred?Answer

    Yes; underwater threats would still reveal them, while only Jutland-specific operational lessons would disappear.

    Q&A
  54. 2:34:03
    QuestionWould a Tiger-derived Admiral really be better if underwater protection issues still had to be addressed?Answer

    The reply points to Tiger's better freeboard and initial underwater protection, without specifying a complete revised protection scheme.

    Q&A
  55. 2:35:33
    Why the alternate Admirals follow the fast-battleship line

    The closing clarification places the proposed Admirals after Queen Elizabeth and the R class in design ancestry.

    Notable Point
  56. 2:37:39
    The displacement cost of a 30-knot fast battleship

    The final design estimate puts a possible 30-knot fast battleship at roughly 48,000-50,000 tons.

    Notable Point