Video
Patreon 41: RN Strategic & Tactical thinking on submarines & anti-submarine forces between the Wars
Study Patreon 41: RN Strategic & Tactical thinking on submarines & anti-submarine forces between the Wars, a Dr. Alex Clarke video from 23 Dec 2021, with 50 time notes. Topics include Anti-Submarine Warfare, Interwar…
Time notes
- 5:46Why submarines and ASW forces had to train togetherChapter
The Royal Navy treated submarine and anti-submarine capability as mutually dependent, using each to make the other more realistic.
- 12:19Range and geography shaped the submarine forceChapter
Mediterranean, Atlantic, and Far Eastern patrols demanded very different ranges, bases, and submarine designs.
- 19:48Diesel boats and nuclear boats hunt differentlyNotable Point
A quiet diesel submarine can wait like a mobile minefield, while a nuclear boat can sprint ahead, attack, and escape.
- 22:11QuestionWhy did the Royal Navy not adopt snorkels as readily as Germany after encountering the Dutch idea?AnswerQ&A
The operational gain was less compelling in Britain's expected theatres, while hull space and design changes competed with equipment such as radar.
- 24:51QuestionCan small and large submarines be understood as equivalents of coastal battleships and battleships?AnswerQ&A
No: conventional submarines lack the visible presence role of surface capital ships, though hidden SSBNs serve a different deterrent purpose.
- 25:54The T class carried older features into an underwater design shiftNotable Point
The T-class hull carried features from earlier British boats into a period when underwater performance was becoming more important than surface speed.
- 27:47Early radar gave British submarines warning and search reachNotable Point
British submarine radar installations emphasized warning of aircraft while also offering limited surface-search capability.
- 29:13Building a Far Eastern submarine force by iterationChapter
The O, P, and R boats emerged through successive experiments to give Britain long-range submarines for the Far East.
- 40:49The S class balanced Atlantic and Mediterranean demandsChapter
The S class replaced ageing H boats with a medium design that could serve in the Atlantic while still fitting Mediterranean requirements.
- 43:34QuestionDid the interwar Royal Navy omit dedicated ASW exercises for defending merchant convoys?AnswerQ&A
No: it used Royal Fleet Auxiliary ships as simulated merchant convoys and trained escort and hunting groups, though the armed stand-ins created unrealistic assumptions.
- 47:42QuestionWere submarines unfairly hobbled during Royal Navy anti-submarine exercises?AnswerQ&A
Not deliberately: fixed schedules, prestige targets, safety limits, and peacetime incentives made exercise behaviour differ from wartime choices.
- 50:24Fleet and minelaying boats tested alternative submarine rolesChapter
River-class fleet boats and purpose-built minelayers explored how submarines might accompany a fleet or attack through mines.
- 51:52QuestionDid the US Navy operate submarines with the Royal Navy in the Atlantic and Mediterranean during the Second World War?AnswerQ&A
Only to a limited extent: most US submarines stayed in the Pacific, where British and American boats were separated into assigned operating areas.
- 52:31QuestionWhen did active ASDIC supersede passive hydrophone detection?AnswerQ&A
During the 1920s, especially as reliable fittings and trained crews became sufficiently widespread by the middle of the decade.
- 56:04The U class put underwater performance firstChapter
The U class was designed for short-range underwater ambush work from Mediterranean and North Sea bases.
- 1:01:02QuestionWas the T class designed for Mediterranean service, and did it have a tendency to dive suddenly without warning?AnswerQ&A
No: it was a long-range Far Eastern successor to the O, P, and R boats, while the loss of HMS Thetis was an accident rather than a class-wide diving tendency.
- 1:08:34Convoy ASW and fleet ASW required different escortsChapter
A convoy escort needed endurance and reliable ASW gear, while a fleet escort also needed speed, guns, and air defence.
- 1:13:51QuestionDid the Allies use submarine supply ships in the Pacific during the Second World War?AnswerQ&A
No: escorted surface ships carried much more, while submarines were used for exceptional high-value, low-volume supply runs such as those to Malta.
- 1:14:21QuestionWas submarine insulation different for boats intended for cold waters and warm waters?AnswerQ&A
Not significantly; operating range and the resulting size of the boat mattered more than a separate insulation scheme.
- 1:15:07QuestionWould receiving the Royal Navy's projected large submarine totals have transformed the war?AnswerQ&A
Only if the boats arrived early: a large force available in 1939, especially U-class boats in the Mediterranean, would matter far more than the same total completed by 1945.
- 1:15:40QuestionHave contemporary navies abandoned the concept of convoy protection?AnswerQ&A
No, but effective convoying needs many escorts, and modern navies usually lack enough spare ships to do it on a large scale.
- 1:17:30ASDIC found range and bearing, not certaintyChapter
ASDIC gave escorts a directional echo and range, but speed, weather, thermal layers, and false contacts limited its use.
- 1:24:11Forward-thrown weapons aimed to free an escortChapter
The drive toward Hedgehog-like weapons came from the problem of losing ASDIC contact during a stern depth-charge attack.
- 1:29:31Naval treaty rules created a useful sloop formulaChapter
Treaty limits below 2,000 tons and 20 knots still allowed Britain to build long-range escorts optimized for ASDIC and convoy defence.
- 1:35:45QuestionWhere did the Grimsby class fit into Royal Navy sloop and anti-submarine thinking?AnswerQ&A
It was a long-range Indian Ocean and Far Eastern ASW sloop designed for heavy depth-charge work and construction in Australian, and potentially Indian, yards.
- 1:39:19QuestionWhen an escort's own attack damaged ASDIC, was the problem acoustic interference or physical damage to the equipment?AnswerQ&A
It could be physical damage: a close explosion could harm the thin sonar dome, allowing rushing water to create disabling noise.
- 1:39:53QuestionWhy did the Royal Navy decide that diesel propulsion was unattractive for anti-submarine sloops?AnswerQ&A
Diesel engines transmitted more troublesome vibration and harmonic noise through the hull before effective machinery rafting was available.
- 1:43:46QuestionWhat distinguished a sloop from a corvette, and merchant construction standards from naval standards?AnswerQ&A
Corvettes generally followed commercial construction and triple-expansion machinery, while sloops used naval standards and turbines, with differences also in steel, subdivision, and equipment isolation.
- 1:44:25QuestionWhy was it difficult to develop large naval shipbuilding and dock facilities across the British Empire?AnswerQ&A
They needed skilled labour, heavy capital, sustained orders, and local political and commercial support that the Royal Navy could not provide by itself.
- 1:48:01Trawlers offered a scalable coastal ASW answerChapter
Commercial-style trawlers were less capable than purpose-built escorts but could be produced rapidly in great numbers for coastal duties.
- 1:51:30QuestionWhen did the main burden of ASW shift from shipboard sensors and weapons to submarines and helicopters?AnswerQ&A
It never shifted completely: helicopters and submarines expanded the system, but ships still provide important sensors, processing, coordination, and weapons.
- 1:52:37Imperial industry and the politics of Commonwealth transitionNotable Point
Overseas industrial development is linked to Britain's longer transition from empire to Commonwealth, with an explicit rejection of a benevolent-empire reading.
- 1:54:50QuestionDid Britain have anything like SOSUS at strategic places such as Gibraltar?AnswerQ&A
It had fixed seabed hydrophones in some locations, but nothing approaching the capability of the later SOSUS system.
- 2:01:15The Hunt class turned ASW into a primary missionChapter
The Hunt class added speed to the escort role, allowing it to pursue contacts away from a convoy and regain station.
- 2:03:50An ASW screen needed numbers to expose an ambushNotable Point
Numerous small escorts acted like a skirmish line, finding or triggering submarine attacks before they reached the main force.
- 2:05:35QuestionWhy did Britain not require all prewar trawlers to be built to military standards?AnswerQ&A
The Admiralty would have had to pay the industry-wide extra cost from its own limited budget, so it built some naval trawlers and relied on rapid wartime conversion instead.
- 2:09:20QuestionHow seriously did the 1,850-ton London Naval Treaty limit constrain the Tribal class, and would a second torpedo bank have made it more effective?AnswerQ&A
The limit was a real constraint, and an unconstrained design might have approached Daring-class size, but the second torpedo bank receives no definite verdict.
- 2:11:22QuestionHow might the Royal Navy employ a hypothetical fleet of twenty-two submarines?AnswerQ&A
Using a rough thirds model, about seven could be forward, seven in transit or preparation, and seven in refit, with roughly one additional boat.
- 2:16:38Exercises taught lessons but also created blind spotsChapter
Interwar exercises generated real ASW knowledge, but conditions and assumptions could produce misleading confidence.
- 2:19:53Specialist leaders sustained submarine and ASW expertiseNotable Point
Rear Admirals Submarines and Destroyers gave both sides of the undersea contest senior advocates, including Andrew Cunningham and Hugh Sinclair.
- 2:22:57QuestionDid Royal Navy submarine and anti-submarine forces exercise together and exchange tactical ideas?AnswerQ&A
Yes: destroyers trained constantly, with regular ASW exercises against nearby submarine flotillas and wider forces joining larger practices.
- 2:25:37QuestionDid Royal Navy Mediterranean exercises include allied forces such as the French?AnswerQ&A
They included Commonwealth navies, but not the French Navy or other foreign powers in the same way.
- 2:26:35QuestionDid the Royal Navy experiment with putting one or two floatplanes on a sloop?AnswerQ&A
It considered the idea, but carriers and cruisers already carried aircraft, and monitor experiments had shown the tradeoffs of operating them from smaller ships.
- 2:28:32Undersea warfare as a contest of anticipated countermovesChapter
Designing submarines and ASW systems means anticipating an opponent's future technology and tactics before either is tested in war.
- 2:35:09Modern ASW rests on decades of shadow boxingNotable Point
The distance from the Falklands War leaves much contemporary ASW practice grounded in exercises and theory rather than peer combat.
- 2:39:34QuestionHow many depth charges did a typical sloop or destroyer carry?AnswerQ&A
There was no reliable single average: ninety might be an official sloop load, while captains often carried more and some wartime escorts embarked loads in the hundreds.
- 2:41:29QuestionDid Argentina attempt to attack the British fleet with submarines during the Falklands War?AnswerQ&A
There was a submarine threat, but one boat was caught on the surface at South Georgia and stopped by gunfire before it could press the attack.
- 2:44:37QuestionWill lithium-ion batteries and other air-independent propulsion changes transform submarine warfare?AnswerQ&A
They may, but simulations and exercises cannot establish the wartime result with certainty because their inputs can preserve untested assumptions.
- 2:48:10QuestionWere the Nelson-class ships fast battleships?AnswerQ&A
No: they were not fast battleships as built, though additional boilers might hypothetically have raised them to about 28-29 knots.
- 2:51:19QuestionDid the Royal Navy have an equivalent to USS England's record of sinking multiple submarines?AnswerQ&A
Yes: several Black Swan-class sloops and hunter-killer groups achieved repeated submarine kills, with some Flower-class corvettes also recording high totals.