Video
Patreon 61: Selborne-Fisher Scheme: Integration & De-Integration of Executive & Engineering Branches
Study Patreon 61: Selborne-Fisher Scheme: Integration & De-Integration of Executive & Engineering Branches, a Dr. Alex Clarke video from 25 Aug 2022, with 42 time notes. Topics include Naval Education, Naval…
Time notes
- 9:42QuestionHow useful are the Honor Harrington books for teaching and film adaptation?AnswerQ&A
He enjoys them and thinks their character focus suits film adaptation, but finds Glynn's books more useful for teaching, testing, and training.
- 15:52Carrier doctrine as a test of officer educationChapter
The opening source critique connects interwar carrier choices to the technical education of officers trained under the Selborne-Fisher system.
- 25:43QuestionWhy did navies keep investing in battleships before aircraft had proved they could replace them?AnswerQ&A
Because betting everything on carriers before aircraft matured risked catastrophic failure if air-power predictions were wrong.
- 26:06QuestionHow effective were battleships in heavy European sea conditions?AnswerQ&A
They generally did fairly well in those conditions.
- 26:16QuestionDid the 30,000-ton British carrier thought experiment mean the Audacious class?AnswerQ&A
No. It lies around Implacable and Indefatigable, perhaps with some Indomitable influence; Audacious was a later generation.
- 29:06QuestionWhere do pictures of the never-built G3 battlecruisers come from?AnswerQ&A
They are kit-bashed or 3D-modelled reconstructions based on the designs.
- 29:34Selborne's 1926 defence of engineering officersChapter
Selborne distinguishes three groups of engineering officers and explains what the 1902 scheme did - and did not - promise about interchangeability.
- 35:02The engineering status crisis behind the reformChapter
The reform answered a widening institutional divide as machinery became essential but engineer officers retained inferior status.
- 38:39Technical literacy without universal specializationNotable Point
Common education was meant to give future captains enough knowledge to judge specialist advice, not to make every officer an engineer.
- 42:45QuestionWas a sailing ship's master an NCO, and how did that affect his authority over midshipmen?AnswerQ&A
He was a warrant officer and navigation specialist, and midshipmen took instruction from him despite the difference in status.
- 43:08QuestionWas Lord Selborne the First Sea Lord?AnswerQ&A
No. He was First Lord of the Admiralty; Walter Kerr was First Sea Lord and John Fisher was Second Sea Lord when the scheme was formed.
- 44:40Selborne's political case for common entryChapter
Selborne's background and the breadth of support for common entry challenge the idea that the reform was merely a Fisher-driven revolution.
- 45:02QuestionIf the sailing master handled navigation, was Master Gunner the corresponding title for the gunnery specialist?AnswerQ&A
Yes. Master Gunner was an actual title for the senior gunnery officer.
- 45:19Ship losses could erase entire engineering departmentsNotable Point
A brief aside uses HMS Hood to show how catastrophic loss could wipe out a ship's entire technical complement.
- 50:34Fisher treated junior-officer access as professional educationNotable Point
Fisher's technical background and regular dinners with junior officers reveal a reformer who treated conversation, feedback, and new ideas as part of naval training.
- 53:08Walter Kerr made common entry an evidence-led reformChapter
Kerr's reputation for accuracy and his cautious investment in submarines show that common entry had the backing of a conservative institutional authority, not only Fisher.
- 56:50Walter Kerr advanced despite anti-Catholic barriersNotable Point
Kerr's rise as a Roman Catholic adds a religious and social dimension to the authority he brought to naval reform.
- 1:00:01QuestionWhich HMS Renown is being discussed as Fisher's flagship?AnswerQ&A
The late-Victorian Renown, not the later battlecruiser.
- 1:01:04Osborne, Dartmouth, and Greenwich expand officer capacityChapter
The reform reshaped shore establishments to increase throughput while combining general education, specialist study, and war-course preparation.
- 1:03:12QuestionHow did the Royal Navy prepare to replace engineering crews lost in combat?AnswerQ&A
It hurriedly expanded training and reopened Keyham in 1913 as war approached; the response is characterized as panic.
- 1:05:10Fisher's Nelson test exposed rigid officer recruitmentNotable Point
The claim that Nelson would fail contemporary entry rules illustrates why common entry also had to widen and modernize the officer pipeline.
- 1:07:15How the common-entry training pipeline workedChapter
A step-by-step outline follows cadets from common entry through college, sea service, examinations, and eventual branch specialization.
- 1:12:28QuestionWhy did Royal Marines aboard ships bring towed howitzers and other heavy equipment?AnswerQ&A
They might deploy ashore in strength and needed supporting firepower; capital-ship detachments could therefore carry surprisingly heavy equipment.
- 1:19:49Branch choice collided with family expectationsNotable Point
The Admiralty required entrants to accept any branch, but some families resisted engineering appointments that seemed to close the route to command.
- 1:24:17QuestionHow could a capital ship carry and put a Rolls-Royce armoured car ashore?AnswerQ&A
The ship had suitable space and heavy lifting gear, while landing craft or an improvised barge could provide the ship-to-shore link.
- 1:28:18Scheme graduates built the interwar and wartime NavyNotable Point
The officers educated by the scheme became the captains, admirals, and materiel leaders who shaped the Royal Navy of the 1920s through the Second World War.
- 1:32:23Opposition thrived on status anxiety and poor communicationChapter
Evidence from the Douglas Committee shows opposition rooted in misinformation, reform fatigue, and fear that engineers or Marines would compete for command.
- 1:32:23Simon Harley and the Dreadnought Project recover naval careersNotable Point
Simon Harley and the Dreadnought Project provide specialist research on the people, careers, training, and service backgrounds behind Royal Navy institutions.
- 1:38:22QuestionWould allowing engineers and Royal Marines to seek executive command give the Navy a useful extra pool of candidates?AnswerQ&A
Yes, but if captain vacancies stayed fixed, the wider and potentially stronger pool would also reduce existing executive officers' promotion chances.
- 1:41:08QuestionDid Jellicoe support the Selborne-Fisher scheme while Beatty opposed it?AnswerQ&A
Yes. Jellicoe strongly supported the scheme, while Beatty was not a supporter.
- 1:41:32QuestionWhich officers specialized in engineering and later became executive captains or admirals?AnswerQ&A
No example could be named from memory; the question needs Simon Harley's career research, and the 1922 changes complicate the path.
- 1:42:26Career results exposed the Royal Marines problemChapter
Early graduates reached captain and engineer-captain rank, but almost no common-entry officers chose the Royal Marines, prompting separate entry to return.
- 1:47:12Staff and tactical schools carried the educational legacyChapter
Later institutions preserved the scheme's scientific approach by teaching staff work, tactics, and critical thought across the officer corps.
- 1:47:12De-integration retained much of common trainingNotable Point
Moving specialization earlier did not dismantle Osborne or the shared educational habits created by common entry.
- 1:53:14Training reform changes a navy for generationsChapter
The conclusion argues that changing who teaches and promotes future officers can shape naval culture longer than any individual shipbuilding decision.
- 1:58:20QuestionDoes the Selborne-Fisher reform mean Jackie Fisher was actually a good admiral?AnswerQ&A
Yes, fairly good; Fisher certainly knew how to deal with this institutional problem.
- 1:58:42QuestionWhat howitzers or field guns did Royal Marines use aboard ships in the 1910s and 1920s?AnswerQ&A
Whatever they could obtain; the examples are a tentatively identified baby howitzer and an apparently unofficial shipboard 25-pounder.
- 2:01:13QuestionDid anyone like Admiral Beatty?AnswerQ&A
Yes. Many people liked him because he was personable, charismatic, and a flash man.
- 2:08:05QuestionHow useful would a converted mobile naval base have been on D-Day?AnswerQ&A
It was poorly matched to D-Day's port-building needs but could have been highly useful in Crete or the Far East.
- 2:09:05QuestionHow could an Independencia-class battlecruiser be salvaged through a 1920s rebuild?AnswerQ&A
Only through a comprehensive structural and machinery rebuild, effectively retaining the hull while replacing nearly everything else.
- 2:13:39Ark Royal occupies the center of the interwar fleet portraitNotable Point
A public image meant to display Royal Navy strength visually centers Ark Royal, complicating claims that interwar service culture could imagine power only through battleships.
- 2:18:50A prewar exercise foreshadowed Force HNotable Point
A late-1930s exercise paired Ark Royal and Glorious with two battlecruisers in a formation resembling the later Force H.