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Kido Butai spotted on december 4th 1941... 3 days before Pearl Harbour, what changes? Patreon 108
Study Kido Butai spotted on december 4th 1941... 3 days before Pearl Harbour, what changes? Patreon 108, a Dr. Alex Clarke video from 21 Nov 2024, with 54 time notes. Topics include Alternate History, Imperial Japanese…
Time notes
- 4:53Why Kido Butai was so hard to findChapter
The northern route exploited gaps in shipping, aircraft coverage, submarine patrols, and Pacific command boundaries.
- 13:55Why the American carriers cannot make the sightingNotable Point
Enterprise, Lexington, Saratoga, and the Atlantic carriers were committed too far away for a minimally altered scenario.
- 17:09Task Force 3 provides the plausible sightingChapter
A surface-raider exercise gives Indianapolis and Phoenix enough scout planes to find and shadow Kido Butai without moving a carrier.
- 26:40QuestionWhat changes if the US Pacific Fleet remains based mainly at San Diego and uses Pearl Harbor only as a forward base?AnswerQ&A
The fleet would be beyond the planned strike's reach, but a less heavily defended Pearl Harbor might become a more plausible amphibious target.
- 35:10Japanese fatalism shapes the decisionChapter
The response depends on Roosevelt, Tojo, Yamamoto, Kimmel, and Hirohito rather than on a simple operational order.
- 44:44QuestionWhat stops Nagumo from attacking Task Force 3 before it warns Pearl Harbor?AnswerQ&A
Radio carries the sighting to the cruisers and onward almost immediately, while locating, launching, and flying a Japanese strike would take far longer.
- 50:10Why this warning would be difficult to dismissNotable Point
A direct scout report of a Japanese carrier force heading east would be much less ambiguous than the historically misidentified radar return over Oahu.
- 53:24Four strategic outcomes after discoveryNotable Point
The sighting produces four branches: secret American readiness, an acknowledged approach, Japanese withdrawal, or Tojo's removal.
- 56:15QuestionHow many defensive aircraft on Oahu could have met the Japanese attack?AnswerQ&A
Probably enough if alerted, but the exact number depends on whether one counts assigned, available, or operational aircraft and ready crews.
- 57:27A secret American alert turns Pearl Harbor into a trapChapter
Enterprise and Lexington could strike Kido Butai during launch or recovery while Pearl Harbor quietly empties and disperses personnel.
- 1:01:07QuestionWould the United States be willing to strike Kido Butai first after discovering it?AnswerQ&A
Possibly, but waiting for Japan to attack Oahu before launching the prepared ambush would give Roosevelt a much stronger political position.
- 1:05:26QuestionCould the United States project power against Japan and China immediately after destroying Kido Butai?AnswerQ&A
Not comprehensively, but surviving American carriers would have considerable freedom if Japan had lost its principal fleet striking force.
- 1:07:40QuestionWould the US Navy allow Nagumo to withdraw if he canceled the attack?AnswerQ&A
Yes. If the Japanese force turned away without attacking, the United States would let it leave.
- 1:10:15Tojo orders the exposed attack to continueChapter
An announced sighting creates an open gray-zone contest in which both fleets prepare for battle and Nagumo loses surprise.
- 1:14:53QuestionCould the Japanese striking force intercept and translate American spotting reports?AnswerQ&A
Probably not in time; Japan had good decryption capabilities, but not the necessary real-time capacity deployed with this fleet.
- 1:16:33QuestionHow would MacArthur react to advance warning that a Japanese carrier force was moving east?AnswerQ&A
He might alert the Philippines or act aggressively, but he would probably repeat his historical inaction.
- 1:17:30QuestionCould Kimmel command at sea if his usual flagship were in dry dock?AnswerQ&A
Yes. He could transfer his flag to an alternate command-capable battleship and would probably sail with the battle line.
- 1:23:10QuestionWould an alerted American fleet fight Kido Butai in a surface gun battle?AnswerQ&A
Probably not; Japan would rely on its carrier advantage, because a direct gunfight with the American battle line would be unfavorable.
- 1:24:54Japanese withdrawal buys an armed pauseChapter
A recall could reopen diplomacy, but both sides would rearm and the delay might last only months unless sanctions eased.
- 1:32:40QuestionCould the United States shift Pacific Fleet ships to Australia for forward basing after Japan withdrew?AnswerQ&A
Only through a major agreement that would signal alliance with the British Empire; visits to Singapore would be politically easier than a permanent Australian base.
- 1:35:30QuestionCould Japan still stop the midget-submarine attack if Kido Butai withdrew?AnswerQ&A
In theory, yes; there was still time to recall or halt that part of the operation.
- 1:36:28How indirect imperial action could remove TojoChapter
Hirohito could signal disapproval and let the Navy collapse Tojo's cabinet by withdrawing its minister.
- 1:49:42Factional rivalry makes a pro-Tojo coup difficultNotable Point
Japan's many rival factions weaken Tojo's coalition because groups that might resist Hirohito also fear letting a competitor control imperial access.
- 1:54:47How Tojo's trial concentrated postwar responsibilityNotable Point
The postwar occupation wanted Tojo available for trial and sought a case that placed responsibility on him while presenting Hirohito as blameless.
- 1:58:52Hitler and Churchill could widen the crisisChapter
German opportunism or British reinforcement could turn the Pacific sighting into a much wider strategic realignment.
- 2:01:04QuestionWould a Yonai government declare war on Germany to demonstrate good faith toward the United States?AnswerQ&A
Probably not; Japan would more likely step back while the United States fought Germany.
- 2:05:26QuestionWould shifting the Mediterranean Fleet east allow Italy to capture Malta?AnswerQ&A
No. Malta's geography, tiny beaches, difficult airborne terrain, and heavy garrison would still make invasion extremely hard.
- 2:07:12QuestionWere the British officers defending Crete simply incompetent?AnswerQ&A
No; repeated command changes prevented continuity, and a specialist in island and port defence was displaced before his plan could be implemented.
- 2:09:34The scenario exposes America's patrol shortfallChapter
The most likely result is an American sortie and Japanese withdrawal, while the scenario exposes inadequate bases and patrol-aircraft numbers.
- 2:14:19QuestionWhat if the Japanese amphibious force heading for Wake Island were discovered?AnswerQ&A
Lexington might divert toward Wake and join Enterprise, but assembling enough aircraft and arriving in time would be a very close-run operation.
- 2:19:04QuestionDid the naval treaties prevent the United States from building the patrol aircraft, tenders, and auxiliaries needed for Pacific reconnaissance?AnswerQ&A
No. Some destroyer and auxiliary limits existed, but the treaties left ample room for more patrol aircraft and aviation support.
- 2:19:40QuestionCould the Army Air Forces have developed a B-17 variant for long-range maritime patrol?AnswerQ&A
Yes, it was possible, but the Army did not field such an aircraft for this role.
- 2:21:27QuestionWhy use Red Storm Rising rather than SSN to teach naval conflict?AnswerQ&A
Red Storm Rising presents a complete war scenario suitable for strategic analysis, while SSN is too limited for that teaching task.
- 2:31:24QuestionDoes The Hunt for Red October also work as a teaching example?AnswerQ&A
Yes, mainly the film, because it illustrates command structure more clearly than many other movies.
- 2:32:51QuestionWhat might a US Navy approach to attack Japan look like?AnswerQ&A
Use the Doolittle Raid route as the closest practical comparison for the approach.
- 2:33:24QuestionHow would Roosevelt react if Hitler declared war after the Japanese force turned back?AnswerQ&A
The declaration would simplify Roosevelt's position and allow the United States to focus most combat power on Europe.
- 2:35:04QuestionWould building more American cruisers before the war make this discovery more plausible?AnswerQ&A
Yes; more cruisers would add scouting and escort capacity, and the Washington treaty did not initially impose a cumulative cruiser limit.
- 2:36:32QuestionWhat happens if a Japanese carrier suffers a major mechanical failure on the way to Pearl Harbor?AnswerQ&A
The carrier and escorts must detach, reducing striking power enough that the whole force would probably return.
- 2:37:24QuestionWould raising the heavy-cruiser limit by several thousand tons improve construction?AnswerQ&A
It might improve the ship, but a wholly new 16,000-ton design could delay delivery compared with continuing an established class.
- 2:41:00QuestionIf the United States built more prewar cruisers, which classes would be repeated?AnswerQ&A
Most likely Pensacola-class ships, or Northamptons if authorization came slightly later.
- 2:42:52QuestionWould an all-forward King George V design gain a third quadruple 14-inch turret or more speed?AnswerQ&A
More guns are likelier; 28 knots was already sufficient, so the design effort would probably pursue a third main-battery turret.
- 2:44:53QuestionWhich American cruiser class would be best suited to making this discovery?AnswerQ&A
The Brooklyn class, because of its aviation facilities, although it appeared too late for a much larger force to be built under this premise.
- 2:45:35Reserve amphibious ships can preserve surge capacityNotable Point
Placing large amphibious ships under a reserve model could retain their wartime utility while reducing the regular-crewing burden.
- 2:47:51QuestionWhat aid would China's leadership request if Japan backed away from Pearl Harbor?AnswerQ&A
Artillery first, then aircraft and tanks, to strengthen defensive positions and support attacks.
- 2:49:28QuestionHow would larger British and American cruiser programs affect later treaty fleets?AnswerQ&A
Britain would welcome the extra tonnage because it sought at least seventy modern cruisers and could reuse overage ships in secondary roles.
- 2:51:01QuestionWould the United States share the Kido Butai sighting with friendly navies?AnswerQ&A
Only if Roosevelt disclosed the sighting; a secret American ambush plan would probably keep the intelligence from being shared.
- 2:51:26QuestionCould longer service contracts and better naval housing improve retention without a major pay increase?AnswerQ&A
Housing would help, but it cannot replace competitive pay; recruitment and retention require both.
- 2:52:31QuestionWhat would be the most embarrassing way for Kido Butai to be detected?AnswerQ&A
A radio-equipped civilian liner accidentally sailing through the formation despite the route's careful avoidance of shipping lanes.
- 2:53:04QuestionWhat changes if the interwar naval treaties never happen?AnswerQ&A
The United States and Britain would more likely compete in ship quality and technology than fund an unlimited race in numbers.
- 2:55:31QuestionHow can low military pay contribute to post-Cold War force reductions?AnswerQ&A
Weak pay depresses recruitment, allowing forces to shrink through vacancies before governments formally remove the unfilled posts.
- 2:56:53QuestionShould all public-sector pay be linked directly to MPs' pay?AnswerQ&A
A common framework could help, but a direct link risks letting political decisions about MPs' salaries distort Civil Service and military pay.
- 2:59:05Paid public office broadens who can serveNotable Point
Paying MPs and councillors is an access-to-office issue because unpaid roles favor people with independent wealth, pensions, or a party career path.
- 3:01:57QuestionWhat would a Royal Navy 16,000-ton cruiser designed in the early 1930s look like?AnswerQ&A
It would resemble the Tiger-cub concepts, probably with 9.2-inch guns if the rules allowed them.
- 3:03:12Transparent pay scales still need revolving-door rulesNotable Point
A common government pay scale can expose costs and limit discretionary rewards, but post-office employment restrictions also require active enforcement.